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Switch to Forum Live View Horrors of One-Child Policy Leave Deep Scars in Chinese Society
2 years ago  ::  Oct 30, 2015 - 11:02AM #1
JRoadrunner
Posts: 6,282

Horrors of one-child policy leave deep scars in Chinese society


www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacifi...


His wife was seven months pregnant with their second child when the group of people barged into his home and took her away. He followed them to the local hospital, where – against medical advice and despite his pleadings – they jammed a needle into her belly.


“They grabbed my wife’s body like they were grabbing a pig, four or five people holding her hands and legs and head, and injected a shot into her belly,” the man said, asking not to be named for fear of retribution. “Neither my wife nor I signed any consent form.”


Ten hours later, she gave birth to a boy, wriggling and faintly crying. But the doctors in southern Hunan province would not even let her hold the dying infant, the husband said, putting the baby in a plastic bag and instructing him to pay a cleaner a small sum to bury it on a nearby hill.


The incident happened not during the horrors of some Mao Zedong-inspired mania in the 1950s or 1960s, but in 2011, in the Internet age and when China was walking proudly on the global stage as a major power.


On Thursday, China’s Communist Party announced it was abandoning its unpopular one-child policy after 35 years. But the scars still run deep.


In 2012 alone, official statistics show 6.7 million women in China were forced to have abortions under the one-child policy. Rates in previous decades often topped 10 million a year. As a result, experts say, suicide rates among women in China are significantly higher than among men in contrast to global norms.


Unimaginable numbers of girls are secretly aborted or killed in infancy every year by parents seeking boys, skewing the sex ratio dramatically.


In the past four decades, hundreds of millions of men and women have been forcibly sterilized or have intrauterine devices inserted under Chinese family planning policies.


The vast majority of people are still scared to speak out, but many, including some of the cadres involved in enforcing the policy, feel bitter to this day.


Moderated by Merope on Oct 30, 2015 - 03:25PM
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2 years ago  ::  Oct 30, 2015 - 11:15AM #2
vra
Posts: 7,467

As disgusting as it was, the one-child policy simply had to be done if one is aware of the demographics that China faced.  The population growth was exploding, and without that policy there would have been massive deaths due to starvation that would make the late 50's and 60's death rate pale in comparison.  Essentially, it was a Catch-22 situation that they had to face, and they did.  

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2 years ago  ::  Oct 30, 2015 - 11:26AM #3
JRoadrunner
Posts: 6,282

Oct 30, 2015 -- 11:15AM, vra wrote:


As disgusting as it was, the one-child policy simply had to be done if one is aware of the demographics that China faced.  The population growth was exploding, and without that policy there would have been massive deaths due to starvation that would make the late 50's and 60's death rate pale in comparison.  Essentially, it was a Catch-22 situation that they had to face, and they did.  




I wonder how you would have felt if you were one of the hundreds of millions who had been forcibly sterilized... or aborted?


Your analysis is a reflection of the exact problem of communist thinking: "to make an omelet you have to crack a few eggs" -- tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of people had to die to achieve the communist "utopia."


In actuality, it was Mao's Communist system that caused the widespread starvation and suffering. Even Chinese feudalism was better than Maoism. 

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2 years ago  ::  Oct 30, 2015 - 11:33AM #4
Erey
Posts: 21,730

I went to China in March to Beijing and Shanghai and the areas around those two cities. 


Yes,  Chinese society looks pretty old, lots and lots of old people.   They did talk about it,  China has an upside down pyramid when it comes to population.  


Here is just another caveat,   If you are a "ethnic minority"  you always could have had two children.    China is 92% Han but has about 57 ethnic minorities and those could have two children. One of guides we had is a young woman with a 6 year old son,  we saw pictures of the son.  She said now that they were lifting the ban she and her husband were seriously considering a second child. 


Also,  you could have a second child before but you have to pay for it.  The price is different in different parts of the country but in Beijing it is about 38K.   IF you pay 38K  your second child will have full citizenship rights (school, medical, etc.)  The average Chinese salary is just a bit over 8K so there are alot of lost or forgotten children who could not go to school because their families were never going to raise that kind of money.



What I think is worse is the impediment to mobility for alot of Chinese.   If you want to move,  say go to the city from the countryside you are not going to be a registered resident of that new area and so you are not getting free public school for your child,  you have to pay, or free medical.  You can't really rent a place to live and often have to live in a basement or something.


Alot of chinese with children want to move to the city for opportunity and have these years where they are sort of illegal in thier own country.  Typically this is for a period of time,  like 5 years. 




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2 years ago  ::  Oct 30, 2015 - 11:36AM #5
Erey
Posts: 21,730

Oct 30, 2015 -- 11:26AM, JRoadrunner wrote:


Oct 30, 2015 -- 11:15AM, vra wrote:


As disgusting as it was, the one-child policy simply had to be done if one is aware of the demographics that China faced.  The population growth was exploding, and without that policy there would have been massive deaths due to starvation that would make the late 50's and 60's death rate pale in comparison.  Essentially, it was a Catch-22 situation that they had to face, and they did.  




I wonder how you would have felt if you were one of the hundreds of millions who had been forcibly sterilized... or aborted?


Your analysis is a reflection of the exact problem of communist thinking: "to make an omelet you have to crack a few eggs" -- tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of people had to die to achieve the communist "utopia."


In actuality, it was Mao's Communist system that caused the widespread starvation and suffering. Even Chinese feudalism was better than Maoism. 





One of the most arrogant/stupid things Mao did was decree that since China was going to be a superpower they were going to export grain like other superpowers.   No ifs ands or buts.   Forget they did not have excess grain for export.


So he decided that birds were a problem,  birds eat grain and so birds must be killed.  So this big campaign to kill the birds. Still today you see few birds in China,  the population has not rebuilt.  I saw zero squirells despite going to several parks (probably eaten during the famine).


So they killed off all the birds and the then insects came along and destroyed the crops.

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2 years ago  ::  Oct 30, 2015 - 11:36AM #6
vra
Posts: 7,467

Oct 30, 2015 -- 11:26AM, JRoadrunner wrote:


Oct 30, 2015 -- 11:15AM, vra wrote:


As disgusting as it was, the one-child policy simply had to be done if one is aware of the demographics that China faced.  The population growth was exploding, and without that policy there would have been massive deaths due to starvation that would make the late 50's and 60's death rate pale in comparison.  Essentially, it was a Catch-22 situation that they had to face, and they did.  




I wonder how you would have felt if you were one of the hundreds of millions who had been forcibly sterilized... or aborted?


Your analysis is a reflection of the exact problem of communist thinking: "to make an omelet you have to crack a few eggs" -- tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of people had to die to achieve the communist "utopia."


In actuality, it was Mao's Communist system that caused the widespread starvation and suffering. Even Chinese feudalism was better than Maoism. 




So, you apparently think that China's solution was to let masses of Chinese starve?  Gee, what "compassion" you have.  And it is blatantly dishonest of you to take what I posted as some sort of endorsement of what China had done in the past or even is doing currently.  Do you have any honesty in you whatsoever?    

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2 years ago  ::  Oct 30, 2015 - 11:53AM #7
JRoadrunner
Posts: 6,282

Oct 30, 2015 -- 11:36AM, vra wrote:


Oct 30, 2015 -- 11:26AM, JRoadrunner wrote:


Oct 30, 2015 -- 11:15AM, vra wrote:


As disgusting as it was, the one-child policy simply had to be done if one is aware of the demographics that China faced.  The population growth was exploding, and without that policy there would have been massive deaths due to starvation that would make the late 50's and 60's death rate pale in comparison.  Essentially, it was a Catch-22 situation that they had to face, and they did.  




I wonder how you would have felt if you were one of the hundreds of millions who had been forcibly sterilized... or aborted?


Your analysis is a reflection of the exact problem of communist thinking: "to make an omelet you have to crack a few eggs" -- tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of people had to die to achieve the communist "utopia."


In actuality, it was Mao's Communist system that caused the widespread starvation and suffering. Even Chinese feudalism was better than Maoism. 




So, you apparently think that China's solution was to let masses of Chinese starve? 




You don't get it, do you. Read English. " Mao's Communist system that caused the widespread starvation..." The Great Leap Forward, for instance, was a man made famine/tragedy -- one that caused the death of perhaps 50 million in three years. And it was not merely that Mao's communism did not react properly to it, thus passively causing the death of the 40-50 million. His belief system actively brought about their deaths. 


In short, Mao's one-child system would not have been necessary, even from a cold economic standpoint, if he had not imposed his communist utopia on the population.


But why am I explaining myself? You're so discombobulated with anything I or those who disagree with you say, that you will almost assuredly find some way of misunderstanding the words and twisting the meaning.


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2 years ago  ::  Oct 30, 2015 - 11:55AM #8
JRoadrunner
Posts: 6,282

Oct 30, 2015 -- 11:36AM, Erey wrote:


Oct 30, 2015 -- 11:26AM, JRoadrunner wrote:


Oct 30, 2015 -- 11:15AM, vra wrote:


As disgusting as it was, the one-child policy simply had to be done if one is aware of the demographics that China faced.  The population growth was exploding, and without that policy there would have been massive deaths due to starvation that would make the late 50's and 60's death rate pale in comparison.  Essentially, it was a Catch-22 situation that they had to face, and they did.  




I wonder how you would have felt if you were one of the hundreds of millions who had been forcibly sterilized... or aborted?


Your analysis is a reflection of the exact problem of communist thinking: "to make an omelet you have to crack a few eggs" -- tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of people had to die to achieve the communist "utopia."


In actuality, it was Mao's Communist system that caused the widespread starvation and suffering. Even Chinese feudalism was better than Maoism. 





One of the most arrogant/stupid things Mao did was decree that since China was going to be a superpower they were going to export grain like other superpowers.   No ifs ands or buts.   Forget they did not have excess grain for export.


So he decided that birds were a problem,  birds eat grain and so birds must be killed.  So this big campaign to kill the birds. Still today you see few birds in China,  the population has not rebuilt.  I saw zero squirells despite going to several parks (probably eaten during the famine).


So they killed off all the birds and the then insects came along and destroyed the crops.




And that's why they started including insects in their diet. At least that's what a Chinese guide told me when I was there. (As you probably know if you were there, the markets are filled with skewered insects and other creepy-crawling things that make a Western stomach turn.)

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2 years ago  ::  Oct 30, 2015 - 12:13PM #9
Erey
Posts: 21,730


[/quote]


So, you apparently think that China's solution was to let masses of Chinese starve?  Gee, what "compassion" you have.  And it is blatantly dishonest of you to take what I posted as some sort of endorsement of what China had done in the past or even is doing currently.  Do you have any honesty in you whatsoever?    


[/quote]



Ummmm,  they did actually let masses of Chinese starve,  that happened.

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2 years ago  ::  Oct 30, 2015 - 3:40PM #10
vra
Posts: 7,467

Oct 30, 2015 -- 11:53AM, JRoadrunner wrote:


Oct 30, 2015 -- 11:36AM, vra wrote:


Oct 30, 2015 -- 11:26AM, JRoadrunner wrote:


Oct 30, 2015 -- 11:15AM, vra wrote:


As disgusting as it was, the one-child policy simply had to be done if one is aware of the demographics that China faced.  The population growth was exploding, and without that policy there would have been massive deaths due to starvation that would make the late 50's and 60's death rate pale in comparison.  Essentially, it was a Catch-22 situation that they had to face, and they did.  




I wonder how you would have felt if you were one of the hundreds of millions who had been forcibly sterilized... or aborted?


Your analysis is a reflection of the exact problem of communist thinking: "to make an omelet you have to crack a few eggs" -- tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of people had to die to achieve the communist "utopia."


In actuality, it was Mao's Communist system that caused the widespread starvation and suffering. Even Chinese feudalism was better than Maoism. 




So, you apparently think that China's solution was to let masses of Chinese starve? 




You don't get it, do you. Read English. " Mao's Communist system that caused the widespread starvation..." The Great Leap Forward, for instance, was a man made famine/tragedy -- one that caused the death of perhaps 50 million in three years. And it was not merely that Mao's communism did not react properly to it, thus passively causing the death of the 40-50 million. His belief system actively brought about their deaths. 


In short, Mao's one-child system would not have been necessary, even from a cold economic standpoint, if he had not imposed his communist utopia on the population.


But why am I explaining myself? You're so discombobulated with anything I or those who disagree with you say, that you will almost assuredly find some way of misunderstanding the words and twisting the meaning.





No, it's you that seemingly cannot understand English as I was not defending what happened prior to the one-child policy nor most other policies by that government.  You create your own looney-tunes "reality" and then you say that I don't understand.  

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