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1 year ago  ::  Apr 09, 2013 - 11:04PM #1
solfeggio
Posts: 9,185
Reserachers at the Cleveland Clinic, sponsored by the Naitonal Institutes of Health, have found that a compound in red meat called carnitine is converted by bacteria in the digestive tract to a metabolite, TMAO, that promotes thickening of the arteries. 

www.nature.com/nm/journal/vaop/ncurrent/...

What's also interesting is that some energy drinks have more carnitine in them than a steak.

online.wsj.com/article/SB100014241278873...


www.nature.com/news/red-meat-wrong-bacte...

Daniel Rader, director of cardiovascular medicine at the University of Pennsylvania at Philadelphia, says that the study 'makes a fairly compelling case' that intestinal bacteria feeding on carnitine increase the risk of heart disease.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 10, 2013 - 12:19AM #2
mountain_man
Posts: 39,276

Apr 9, 2013 -- 11:04PM, solfeggio wrote:

Reserachers at the Cleveland Clinic, sponsored by the Naitonal Institutes of Health, have found that a compound in red meat called carnitine is converted by bacteria in the digestive tract to a metabolite, TMAO, that promotes thickening of the arteries.....


So do some vegetables. Don't eat anything and you'll live forever.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 10, 2013 - 12:41AM #3
Erey
Posts: 18,662

Interesting, i remember seeing Caratine as an ingredient in energy drinks but I never really thought about it.


 


Most energy drinks are consumed by young people not concerned with artery clogging.  But most people are unaware about the Caratine and energy drinks.

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 10, 2013 - 12:56AM #4
jane2
Posts: 14,295

Apr 10, 2013 -- 12:19AM, mountain_man wrote:


Apr 9, 2013 -- 11:04PM, solfeggio wrote:

Reserachers at the Cleveland Clinic, sponsored by the Naitonal Institutes of Health, have found that a compound in red meat called carnitine is converted by bacteria in the digestive tract to a metabolite, TMAO, that promotes thickening of the arteries.....


So do some vegetables. Don't eat anything and you'll live forever.




Gotta luv this responce...................




 

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 10, 2013 - 1:23AM #5
d_p_m
Posts: 9,878

Not breathing avoids other risks. Breathing promotes all sorts of cellular oxidation damage.

"If you aren't confused by quantum physics, you haven't really understood it."

― Niels Bohr



"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."

-- Albert Einstein
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 10, 2013 - 3:16PM #6
rabello
Posts: 21,112

Apr 10, 2013 -- 12:56AM, jane2 wrote:


Apr 10, 2013 -- 12:19AM, mountain_man wrote:


Apr 9, 2013 -- 11:04PM, solfeggio wrote:

Reserachers at the Cleveland Clinic, sponsored by the Naitonal Institutes of Health, have found that a compound in red meat called carnitine is converted by bacteria in the digestive tract to a metabolite, TMAO, that promotes thickening of the arteries.....


So do some vegetables. Don't eat anything and you'll live forever.




Gotta luv this responce...................




Why?  It has no real informative value.  Condescension aside, the only way the statement makes sense is if the writer can show that the amount of carnitine in the vegetables we eat is at least the same as in the meat we eat, and reaches a critical threshold of risk.   One would have to read the research paper in good faith to determine why the researchers found the carnitine in meat and energy drinks to be of risk, and not the carnitine contained in vegetables.   And, it would be nice if opponents of the results presented by actual researchers at the Cleveland Clinic would provde some documentation that shows the carnitine in vegetables is equal to the risk of carnitine in meat and energy drinks


People with coronary artery disease and atherocslerosis are well-advised to pay attention to research that comes from the Cleveland Clinic and if nothing else, know to avoid those energy drinks.  Some forms of atherosclerosis are genetic and start causing symptoms in the late 20s or early 30s.   Cleveland Clinic is one of the flagships for heart research and care in this county.  You want to poo-poo that?


This is what happens when posters refuse to read an OP, much less the link that goes with it, and then post, reflexively -- the way reactionaries do -- and start shooting from the hip, so to speak.

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 10, 2013 - 5:47PM #7
solfeggio
Posts: 9,185

Hello, Rabello -


I'm pleased to see you posting in this thread. 


Americans, Australians, and New Zealanders are some of the biggest meat-eating nations in the world.  And that the habit of eating red meat is so thoroughly engrained in the cultures of English-speaking people always astounds me.


 

Moderated by Merope on Apr 14, 2013 - 03:43PM
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 10, 2013 - 8:30PM #8
jane2
Posts: 14,295

I admire moderation. I grew up on red meat but in moderate measure in portions. I'm 73 and doing well.


We can absorb new info and then measure it. Most Americans I know don't overeat. We're to busy and so many of us do cook at home. We're really not a nation scarfing down over-laden fast food.


The better the income the better the diet overall.


I'll still have a small steak once or twice a week.


 

Moderated by Merope on Apr 14, 2013 - 03:46PM
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 10, 2013 - 8:44PM #9
jane2
Posts: 14,295

Apr 10, 2013 -- 5:47PM, solfeggio wrote:


Americans, Australians, and New Zealanders are some of the biggest meat-eating nations in the world.  And that the habit of eating red meat is so thoroughly engrained in the cultures of English-speaking people always astounds me.



Quasi-statistics are not always accurate. Many here eat moderate amounts of red meat, poultry and sea food along with moderate starch and veggies, including salads and raw veggie trays. In truth many of us are quite careful about cured meats. I make a mean salmon salad. We like stir-fried Asian food. Almost any cuisine is available to us. I cook American, French, Italian, Thai and Chinese. Nothing wrong with a little peanut sauce on Satay.
 

Moderated by Merope on Apr 14, 2013 - 04:11PM
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 10, 2013 - 10:05PM #10
mountain_man
Posts: 39,276

Apr 10, 2013 -- 8:30PM, jane2 wrote:

I admire moderation. I grew up on red meat but in moderate measure in portions. I'm 73 and doing well....


You were lucky. We had fried bologna instead of red meat. If it was red, it was cheap liver. Catchup made either one palatable.


I eat red meat at least once a week. Several main meals per week are completely meat free. I just made a great lentil soup with chicken stock and some veggies.


If someone really wanted to promote a sustainable, ecologically friendly, extremely healthy, food, they'd be promoting insects as the main protein source. In another thread I showed how to use grasshoppers in your salad instead of croutons. That's much healthier. Next time you make your own veggie burgers, mix in some earthworms. It considerably ups the protein and actually improves the flavor.


Ants in your garden? Put them in the salad too. Got snails? Fry them up as an appetizer.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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