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Switch to Forum Live View Pope Writes Nativity Story - Wrong Time and Setting
2 years ago  ::  Dec 23, 2012 - 3:53PM #1
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,158

It looks as if Christmas is totally a secular /pagan/ baptized (christainized)   holiday


 


(CNN) -- It's Christmas, but not as you know it: a new book released this week by Pope Benedict XVI looks at the early life of Jesus -- and debunks several myths about how the Nativity unfolded.


In "Jesus of Nazareth -- The Infancy Narratives," the pope says the Christian calendar is actually based on a blunder by a sixth century monk, who Benedict says was several years off in his calculation of Jesus' birth date.


According to the pope's research, there is also no evidence in the Gospels that the cattle and other animals traditionally pictured gathered around the manger were actually present.


He also debunks the claim that angels sang at the birth, a staple theme of Christmas carols.


www.cnn.com/2012/11/22/world/europe/vati...


 


This being papal doubt to the “historical accuracy “of the entire Bible and destroys the fundamentalist view of inerrancy


 

“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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2 years ago  ::  Dec 23, 2012 - 5:06PM #2
in_my_opinion
Posts: 2,932

Dec 23, 2012 -- 3:53PM, Fodaoson wrote:


It looks as if Christmas is totally a secular /pagan/ baptized (christainized)   holiday


 


(CNN) -- It's Christmas, but not as you know it: a new book released this week by Pope Benedict XVI looks at the early life of Jesus -- and debunks several myths about how the Nativity unfolded.


In "Jesus of Nazareth -- The Infancy Narratives," the pope says the Christian calendar is actually based on a blunder by a sixth century monk, who Benedict says was several years off in his calculation of Jesus' birth date.


According to the pope's research, there is also no evidence in the Gospels that the cattle and other animals traditionally pictured gathered around the manger were actually present.


He also debunks the claim that angels sang at the birth, a staple theme of Christmas carols.


www.cnn.com/2012/11/22/world/europe/vati...


 


This being papal doubt to the “historical accuracy “of the entire Bible and destroys the fundamentalist view of inerrancy


 



That may be true for those who swallow Pius IX's nonsense about Popes being infallible.

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2 years ago  ::  Dec 23, 2012 - 6:04PM #3
DotNotInOz
Posts: 6,833
Such a book represents an individual pope's opinion and has no relationship whatsoever to papal infallibility. Only the poorly informed think everything a pope says is to be regarded as infallible.

Actually, there aren't a whole lot of RCC doctrines that are considered infallible. There's a specific process by which one is discerned, and it will be proclaimed as such.

Otherwise, the pope is simply speaking or writing as any scholar does.
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2 years ago  ::  Dec 23, 2012 - 6:23PM #4
Ebon
Posts: 10,148

Dec 23, 2012 -- 3:53PM, Fodaoson wrote:

In "Jesus of Nazareth -- The Infancy Narratives," the pope says the Christian calendar is actually based on a blunder by a sixth century monk, who Benedict says was several years off in his calculation of Jesus' birth date.



That's been widely known among scholar's for some years. Even the gsopel's themselves suggest a timeframe of 4-6bc.


This being papal doubt to the “historical accuracy “of the entire Bible and destroys the fundamentalist view of inerrancy 



You would think but the RCC dropped inerrancy some time ago. They even accept evolution (albeit guided by a divine hand, which is also my position).

He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God. ~ Proverbs 14:31

Fiat justitia, ruat caelum

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2 years ago  ::  Dec 23, 2012 - 6:33PM #5
in_my_opinion
Posts: 2,932

Dec 23, 2012 -- 6:04PM, DotNotInOz wrote:

Such a book represents an individual pope's opinion and has no relationship whatsoever to papal infallibility. Only the poorly informed think everything a pope says is to be regarded as infallible. Actually, there aren't a whole lot of RCC doctrines that are considered infallible. There's a specific process by which one is discerned, and it will be proclaimed as such. Otherwise, the pope is simply speaking or writing as any scholar does.



There's a variety of scholarly and even "official" opinion on that, and a lot of poorly informed folks, too.


Relationships to infallibility, Papal or otherwise, exist in many religions and their sects. The Mother Church's version is but one of them; and types of infallibility and inerrancy abound throughout the worlds of belief systems.

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2 years ago  ::  Dec 23, 2012 - 8:27PM #6
TemplarS
Posts: 6,868

Dec 23, 2012 -- 3:53PM, Fodaoson wrote:


This being papal doubt to the “historical accuracy “of the entire Bible and destroys the fundamentalist view of inerrancy 




In the 21st century, considering the Bible as inerrant history is centuries out of date (if it ever was truly taken as such).  Catholics and many other Churches have tossed this view long ago. Other Popes have acknowledged this (most recently John Paul II as regards evolution); though Benedict may be the first to address details of the Jesus' birth stories.


The only thing of real note here is by way of contrast with various other Christian hotshots who still cling to the six-day creation and such nonsense.  But don't expect this to have much impact on the fundamentalist yahoos; those folks usually have little use for the Pope and Catholics anyways (particularly, the cynic in me says, now that the election is over and most of the Catholic vote went for Obama). 

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2 years ago  ::  Dec 23, 2012 - 9:23PM #7
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Dec 23, 2012 -- 6:23PM, Ebon wrote:


Dec 23, 2012 -- 3:53PM, Fodaoson wrote:

In "Jesus of Nazareth -- The Infancy Narratives," the pope says the Christian calendar is actually based on a blunder by a sixth century monk, who Benedict says was several years off in his calculation of Jesus' birth date.



That's been widely known among scholar's for some years. Even the gospel's themselves suggest a timeframe of 4-6bc.


The Gospels are a mess in this regard. Matthew clearly indicates a date prior to the death of Herod in 4 BCE, but Luke just as clearly assigns Jesus' birth to 6 CE, at least ten years later.

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2 years ago  ::  Dec 23, 2012 - 9:39PM #8
mountain_man
Posts: 39,703

Dec 23, 2012 -- 3:53PM, Fodaoson wrote:

It looks as if Christmas is totally a secular /pagan/ baptized (christainized)   holiday


Most of us know that already.


This being papal doubt to the “historical accuracy “of the entire Bible and destroys the fundamentalist view of inerrancy


That was destroyed before they started it. The bible is a religious text, not a history book.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  Dec 24, 2012 - 1:54AM #9
Stardove
Posts: 15,552

Not being a Catholic I find this new book by the Pope very interesting at this particular time.


I believe on December 21th, 2012 the Age of Aquarius officially began. 


Just as the Age of Pisces started ending in the Fall of 1987.  In the 25 years between some of us that were paying attention began to feel the shift in the Ages. Just think how much has changed in the last 25 years.


Welcome to the Age of Aquarius. We are in for a great ride folks.  Cool


Beliefnet Community Wide Moderator ~ Peace Love Stardove
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The words I speak and write carry energy and power, so I choose them with care and clear purpose. 

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2 years ago  ::  Dec 24, 2012 - 5:14AM #10
Dostojevsky
Posts: 7,547

Dec 24, 2012 -- 1:54AM, Stardove wrote:


Not being a Catholic I find this new book by the Pope very interesting at this particular time.


I believe on December 21th, 2012 the Age of Aquarius officially began. 


Just as the Age of Pisces started ending in the Fall of 1987.  In the 25 years between some of us that were paying attention began to feel the shift in the Ages. Just think how much has changed in the last 25 years.


Welcome to the Age of Aquarius. We are in for a great ride folks.  Cool



I am with you Kiss

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