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Switch to Forum Live View Russia Slips Back Behind the Iron Curtain
2 years ago  ::  Dec 09, 2012 - 10:03PM #1
Ironhold
Posts: 11,527
link (note: the site appears to be causing Firefox to stall briefly during the loading)

There's a new movement in Russia to prohibit the expansion of any religious group that isn't Orthodox Christianity, Islam, Judaism, or Buddism; given the tone and rhetoric going on, the movement may look at expelling any religious group that doesn't fall into one of those categories.

I'm reading the article now, and it talks about the efforts being taken to chase Mormons out of the country. For example, a lot of the old Cold War-era canards about Mormon missionaries being FBI and/or CIA operatives are coming back in vogue, and so it's been setting off waves of protests.

Yeah.

Banning entire religious groups because the government is paranoid about them?

Looks like Russia might just be sliding back towards the Iron Curtain thanks to Putin.
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2 years ago  ::  Dec 09, 2012 - 10:39PM #2
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Ah, well. Every cloud has a silver lining. Why on earth would Russia want Mormonism? It's completely out of place there.

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2 years ago  ::  Dec 09, 2012 - 10:52PM #3
Erey
Posts: 18,738

Doesn't Germany prohibit mormonism?  Or is that just scientology?

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2 years ago  ::  Dec 10, 2012 - 6:06AM #4
costrel
Posts: 6,226

Dec 9, 2012 -- 10:03PM, Ironhold wrote:

link (note: the site appears to be causing Firefox to stall briefly during the loading)

There's a new movement in Russia to prohibit the expansion of any religious group that isn't Orthodox Christianity, Islam, Judaism, or Buddism; given the tone and rhetoric going on, the movement may look at expelling any religious group that doesn't fall into one of those categories.

I'm reading the article now, and it talks about the efforts being taken to chase Mormons out of the country. For example, a lot of the old Cold War-era canards about Mormon missionaries being FBI and/or CIA operatives are coming back in vogue, and so it's been setting off waves of protests.

Yeah.

Banning entire religious groups because the government is paranoid about them?

Looks like Russia might just be sliding back towards the Iron Curtain thanks to Putin.


Perhaps all those American Mormon missionaries should just stay home and do something worthwhile in the U.S. rather than thinking they have a right to go into a foreign country and try to convert its people away from their ancestral religions. 


According to Wikipedia, many of the Danish converts to Mormonism immigrated to Utah during the years 1850 to 1910, and again, according to Wikipedia, "Soon after the first Mormon pioneers reached Utah in 1847, the Church began encouraging its converts in the British Isles and elsewhere in Europe to emigrate to Utah. From 1849 to 1855, about 16,000 European Latter-day Saints traveled to Utah by ship, rail and then ox and wagon. Although most of these emigrants paid their own expenses, the Church established the Perpetual Emigration Fund to provide financial assistance for poor emigrants to trek west, which they would repay as they were able.It would seem that once a person converts to Mormonism, he or she wants to become, and is even encourged to become, a U.S. citizen and abandon his or her own country just like he or she abandoned his or her own ancestral religion. 


(Now I'm wondering why a Russian who is an Orthodox Christian, a Buddhist, a Jew, or a Muslim would even want to convert to a 19th century American pioneer cult.)

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2 years ago  ::  Dec 10, 2012 - 11:51AM #5
Ebon
Posts: 10,148

Dec 9, 2012 -- 10:03PM, Ironhold wrote:

There's a new movement in Russia to prohibit the expansion of any religious group that isn't Orthodox Christianity, Islam, Judaism, or Buddism; given the tone and rhetoric going on, the movement may look at expelling any religious group that doesn't fall into one of those categories. 



Which is another human rights outrage. I'm a much bigger believer in the free market of ideas than I am in the actual free market and Mormons have as much right to try and spread their faith as anyone else (which isn't the same thing as a right that people listen to them, of course).

Looks like Russia might just be sliding back towards the Iron Curtain thanks to Putin.



Putin always makes me think of a James Bond villain.

He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God. ~ Proverbs 14:31

Fiat justitia, ruat caelum

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2 years ago  ::  Dec 10, 2012 - 2:37PM #6
Aka_me
Posts: 12,197

is it right to belly ache if one isn't actively doing something to fix the problem?


Mormons haven't been in Iran since 1978, they just kinda "wrote the country off".


well... simply do the same for Russia, and leave to the work of implementing social change to other people.

not being able to debate is one thing, employing censorship to avoid debate is beyond words.
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2 years ago  ::  Dec 10, 2012 - 3:10PM #7
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Dec 10, 2012 -- 11:51AM, Ebon wrote:


Dec 9, 2012 -- 10:03PM, Ironhold wrote:

There's a new movement in Russia to prohibit the expansion of any religious group that isn't Orthodox Christianity, Islam, Judaism, or Buddism; given the tone and rhetoric going on, the movement may look at expelling any religious group that doesn't fall into one of those categories. 



Which is another human rights outrage. I'm a much bigger believer in the free market of ideas than I am in the actual free market and Mormons have as much right to try and spread their faith as anyone else (which isn't the same thing as a right that people listen to them, of course).



No doubt, but their inability to do so in Russia leaves me quite indifferent. There are a great many things that I favor that Mormons oppose. They can hardly expect my sympathy.

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2 years ago  ::  Dec 10, 2012 - 4:05PM #8
TPaine
Posts: 9,362

My impression of Yekaterina Steniakina and the Young Guards (Molodaya Gvardiya) is that they are an extremist group. From what I can find out about the group they are opposed to anything or anyone who is not "Russian." Of course Russia is not the only country that has to put up with extremist groups. The United States has to put up with Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association who claims that the free exercise clause First Amendment only applies to Christians and that Mosques should be banned in America and that American Indians must convert to Christianity before they can be considered American citizens. Oh yeah, Fisher also claims we have feminized the Congressional Medal of Honor by awarding it to people who saved the lives of fellow service members. He says it should only go to people who kill the enemy.

"The genius of the Constitution rests not in any static meaning it might have had in a world that is dead and gone, but in the adaptability of its great principles to cope with current problems and current needs." -- Justice William Brennan: Speech to the Text and Teaching Symposium at Georgetown University (October 12, 1985)
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2 years ago  ::  Dec 10, 2012 - 4:07PM #9
arielg
Posts: 9,116

Perhaps all those American Mormon missionaries should just stay home and do something worthwhile in the U.S. rather than thinking they have a right to go into a foreign country and try to convert its people away from their ancestral religions. 




Any true religion is universal, not bound by silly, arbitrary nationalisms. Missionaries are simply people  expressing  their understanding of certain  issues, just like people who post here do. They don't put guns on anybody's head and force them to accept their views.


Every human being has the right to go anywhere.  Whether the world, which devides itself into sovereign countries, is enlightened enough to  recognize those rights today, is another matter.  But even in the UN they pay lip service to them.


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2 years ago  ::  Dec 10, 2012 - 5:11PM #10
Aka_me
Posts: 12,197

Dec 10, 2012 -- 4:05PM, TPaine wrote:

Of course Russia is not the only country that has to put up with extremist groups. The United States has to put up with Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association who claims that the free exercise clause First Amendment only applies to Christians and that Mosques should be banned in America and that American Indians must convert to Christianity before they can be considered American citizens. Oh yeah, Fisher also claims we have feminized the Congressional Medal of Honor by awarding it to people who saved the lives of fellow service members. He says it should only go to people who kill the enemy.



putting up with... and seeing growth in a movement are 2 different things.


Americans put up with Westboro Baptists (which fortunately aren't growing), but France is seeing a real rise in anti-Islamic sentiment.


and extremism in general in Greece.


The extent to which Mormons still entertain a “persecution complex” is important, not only because it informs the way that Mormons understand themselves, but also because it also determines the way that Mormons relate to others.

not being able to debate is one thing, employing censorship to avoid debate is beyond words.
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