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Switch to Forum Live View The War on Christmas
2 years ago  ::  Dec 02, 2012 - 10:53AM #1
Jcarlinbn
Posts: 7,073
sojo.net/blogs/2012/11/30/war-christmas-...

Which side are you on?

The whitewashed, consumerized Nativity Scene?

Or the oppressed unwed mother forced to place her newborn in a flea infested manger? 
Jcarlinbn, community moderator
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2 years ago  ::  Dec 02, 2012 - 11:39AM #2
mountain_man
Posts: 39,703

There is no war on christmas. That's just something made up by disgruntled christians because they were not allowed to force their religious icons onto public property. There are 161 million christians in the USA. Let's say one quarter of them own a piece of property. That's 40 million pieces of private property. Add to that about 350,000 churches and you have quite a few places to put these religious icons. There is no need to use public property especially when our Constitution says that the government cannot get involved in religious matters. 


So, what these christians are actually whining about is their not being able to break the law with impunity. And, as always, christians love to whine persecution when they are not allowed to persecute others.


I also have to wonder how many of these christians actually understand that this time of year was not when their Jesus was allegedly born, and that all the rituals we have for this time of year are Pagan and have to do with the Solstice? They can call it a "christmas tree" all they want, but it's really a Solstice tree.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  Dec 02, 2012 - 11:49AM #3
TPaine
Posts: 9,380

I have to go with Pastor Sandlin on this one. His message made me think of the old Glen Campbell song

LESS OF ME

Let me be a little kinder
Let me be a little blinder
To the faults of those around me
Let me praise a little more

Let me be when I am weary
Just a little bit more cheery
Think a little more of others
And a little less of me

Let me be a little braver
When temptation bids me waver
Let me strive a little harder
To be all that I should be

Let me be a little meeker
With the brother who is weaker
Think a little more of others
And a little less of me

Let me be when I am weary
Just a little bit more cheery
Let me serve a little better
Those that I am striving for

Let me be a little meeker
With the brother who is weaker
Think a little more of others
And a little less of me

Let me be a little meeker
With the brother who is weaker
Think a little more of others
And a little less of me, less of me


Sign me up for the war!

"The genius of the Constitution rests not in any static meaning it might have had in a world that is dead and gone, but in the adaptability of its great principles to cope with current problems and current needs." -- Justice William Brennan: Speech to the Text and Teaching Symposium at Georgetown University (October 12, 1985)
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2 years ago  ::  Dec 02, 2012 - 3:25PM #4
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Dec 2, 2012 -- 10:53AM, Jcarlinbn wrote:

sojo.net/blogs/2012/11/30/war-christmas-...

Which side are you on?

The whitewashed, consumerized Nativity Scene?

Or the oppressed unwed mother forced to place her newborn in a flea infested manger? 


I say to hell with both of them.


And where are we told that Mary was unwed?

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2 years ago  ::  Dec 02, 2012 - 5:50PM #5
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 16,223

1. There is no "War on Christmas"


2. Mary was married to Joseph (she had his little boy named Jesus and had had a few before him)


3. Jesus was a mainline preacher, well within the norms of 1st century preaching. He was exceptional only in the fact that after his death some people decided he had been the Messiah despite the fact that he met none of the requirements and fulfilled none of the duties and obligations.


4. None of the "birth" stories of Jesus have any relation to the actual facts of his birth. All of them were written long after his death by people who had never met him and whose knowledge of his life and preaching was received through hearsay and legend. All of the "birth" stories of Jesus were written to make theological points - they were not meant to tell a factual story.


5. MERRY CHRISTMAS!


 

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2 years ago  ::  Dec 02, 2012 - 6:00PM #6
jonny42
Posts: 6,733

Dec 2, 2012 -- 5:50PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


1. There is no "War on Christmas"


2. Mary was married to Joseph (she had his little boy named Jesus and had had a few before him)


3. Jesus was a mainline preacher, well within the norms of 1st century preaching. He was exceptional only in the fact that after his death some people decided he had been the Messiah despite the fact that he met none of the requirements and fulfilled none of the duties and obligations.


4. None of the "birth" stories of Jesus have any relation to the actual facts of his birth. All of them were written long after his death by people who had never met him and whose knowledge of his life and preaching was received through hearsay and legend. All of the "birth" stories of Jesus were written to make theological points - they were not meant to tell a factual story.


5. MERRY CHRISTMAS!


 




What source says that Mary's husband was Joseph?  What makes you think that report is true?


(IOW, we can trust the Bible when it agrees with what you think happened.)


I love it when people cite the same authors that they find reliable that they don't find reliable.


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2 years ago  ::  Dec 02, 2012 - 6:05PM #7
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,158

Dec 2, 2012 -- 5:50PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


1. There is no "War on Christmas"


2. Mary was married to Joseph (she had his little boy named Jesus and had had a few before him)


3. Jesus was a mainline preacher, well within the norms of 1st century preaching. He was exceptional only in the fact that after his death some people decided he had been the Messiah despite the fact that he met none of the requirements and fulfilled none of the duties and obligations.


4. None of the "birth" stories of Jesus have any relation to the actual facts of his birth. All of them were written long after his death by people who had never met him and whose knowledge of his life and preaching was received through hearsay and legend. All of the "birth" stories of Jesus were written to make theological points - they were not meant to tell a factual story.


5. MERRY CHRISTMAS!


 





For a Jewish Lawyer you have good concept of the New Testament and Church History. Santiago  would agree with you.   Happy Hanukkah




“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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2 years ago  ::  Dec 02, 2012 - 6:06PM #8
jonny42
Posts: 6,733

Dec 2, 2012 -- 6:05PM, Fodaoson wrote:


Dec 2, 2012 -- 5:50PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


1. There is no "War on Christmas"


2. Mary was married to Joseph (she had his little boy named Jesus and had had a few before him)


3. Jesus was a mainline preacher, well within the norms of 1st century preaching. He was exceptional only in the fact that after his death some people decided he had been the Messiah despite the fact that he met none of the requirements and fulfilled none of the duties and obligations.


4. None of the "birth" stories of Jesus have any relation to the actual facts of his birth. All of them were written long after his death by people who had never met him and whose knowledge of his life and preaching was received through hearsay and legend. All of the "birth" stories of Jesus were written to make theological points - they were not meant to tell a factual story.


5. MERRY CHRISTMAS!


 





For a Jewish Lawyer you have good concept of the New Testament and Church History. Santiago  would agree with you.   Happy Hanukkah







Just a little lacking on logic.  See above.


"David really fought Goliath.  But he didn't use stones, because the author can't be trusted."

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2 years ago  ::  Dec 02, 2012 - 6:15PM #9
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 16,223

Dec 2, 2012 -- 6:00PM, jonny42 wrote:


Dec 2, 2012 -- 5:50PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


1. There is no "War on Christmas"


2. Mary was married to Joseph (she had his little boy named Jesus and had had a few before him)


3. Jesus was a mainline preacher, well within the norms of 1st century preaching. He was exceptional only in the fact that after his death some people decided he had been the Messiah despite the fact that he met none of the requirements and fulfilled none of the duties and obligations.


4. None of the "birth" stories of Jesus have any relation to the actual facts of his birth. All of them were written long after his death by people who had never met him and whose knowledge of his life and preaching was received through hearsay and legend. All of the "birth" stories of Jesus were written to make theological points - they were not meant to tell a factual story.


5. MERRY CHRISTMAS!


 




What source says that Mary's husband was Joseph?


IOW, we can trust the Bible when it agrees with what you think happened.





If by "the Bible" you mean the Christian Gospels, then you can not trust anything it says, since it is self contradictory in almost every historical detail. On the other hand, it was not written as a history text or with an eye to being given a non-fiction number in the Dewey Decimal System.


The Christian Gospels are first and foremost a theological statement which provides the foundational myth of Christianity.  If you happen to be Christian, you may find many theological truths within it, you may find the narrative deeply moving, you may find that it helps you relate better to your fellow man and to the divine. This is all for the good and all as intended. You will not find a great deal of historical detail reported in the manner of modern historical chronicles or in modern journalistic endeavors. That is not what the drafters of the Christian Gospels and the early Church were about. Modern historiography and journalistic ideas and ideals were not known at the time the Christian Gospels were written.   


The truths the Christian Gospels are attempting to teach you are not that a little boy was born on December 25 in Bethlehem in Judea. If you are reading the Christian Gospels for that type of information you are either not a Christian, or you are missing the message, or both. Why is it that I get this, and I am not a Christian and you do not?  


 


 

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2 years ago  ::  Dec 02, 2012 - 6:19PM #10
jonny42
Posts: 6,733

Dec 2, 2012 -- 6:15PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Dec 2, 2012 -- 6:00PM, jonny42 wrote:


Dec 2, 2012 -- 5:50PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


1. There is no "War on Christmas"


2. Mary was married to Joseph (she had his little boy named Jesus and had had a few before him)


3. Jesus was a mainline preacher, well within the norms of 1st century preaching. He was exceptional only in the fact that after his death some people decided he had been the Messiah despite the fact that he met none of the requirements and fulfilled none of the duties and obligations.


4. None of the "birth" stories of Jesus have any relation to the actual facts of his birth. All of them were written long after his death by people who had never met him and whose knowledge of his life and preaching was received through hearsay and legend. All of the "birth" stories of Jesus were written to make theological points - they were not meant to tell a factual story.


5. MERRY CHRISTMAS!


 




What source says that Mary's husband was Joseph?


IOW, we can trust the Bible when it agrees with what you think happened.





If by "the Bible" you mean the Christian Gospels, then you can not trust anything it says, since it is self contradictory in almost every historical detail. On the other hand, it was not written as a history text or with an eye to being given a non-fiction number in the Dewey Decimal System.





Then where is your more reliable source for saying that Mary was married to Joseph and that they had a son named Jesus?


Apparently you do put stock in the Gospels.


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