Post Reply
Page 1 of 2  •  1 2 Next
Switch to Forum Live View Extrajudicial and Inhumane
2 years ago  ::  Nov 24, 2012 - 4:53PM #1
in_my_opinion
Posts: 2,924
www.thestar.com/news/world/article/12903...


Where was it that an American soldier's body was dragged in North Africa, the last time this sort of thing went on?

What will the families of these men feel?
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Nov 24, 2012 - 5:11PM #2
mountain_man
Posts: 39,655

I didn't read the story, but was it as extrajudicial and inhumane as murder by drone?

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Nov 24, 2012 - 5:12PM #3
in_my_opinion
Posts: 2,924

Be sure to read all the comments! They are illustrative of the wide gulf of views.

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Nov 24, 2012 - 5:17PM #4
in_my_opinion
Posts: 2,924

Nov 24, 2012 -- 5:11PM, mountain_man wrote:


I didn't read the story, but was it as extrajudicial and inhumane as murder by drone?



The answer to that is: Yes. You're absolutely right about that. (Some of the comments make that same point.)


The difference is between attacking and/or defending against a foreign enemy; versus murdering your own people who are defenseless and captives in your hands.

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Nov 25, 2012 - 10:35PM #5
arielg
Posts: 9,116

Nov 24, 2012 -- 5:17PM, in_my_opinion wrote:


Nov 24, 2012 -- 5:11PM, mountain_man wrote:


I didn't read the story, but was it as extrajudicial and inhumane as murder by drone?



The answer to that is: Yes. You're absolutely right about that. (Some of the comments make that same point.)


The difference is between attacking and/or defending against a foreign enemy; versus murdering your own people who are defenseless and captives in your hands.




It depends what you mean by "your own people".  Is it your family, your neighbors, your state, your country, your ideological buddies, your team mates?


It's not OK to do it to them but it is  OK to do it to "the others"? For some of us,  any human being is our family.




Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Nov 25, 2012 - 11:27PM #6
in_my_opinion
Posts: 2,924

Nov 25, 2012 -- 10:35PM, arielg wrote:


Nov 24, 2012 -- 5:17PM, in_my_opinion wrote:


Nov 24, 2012 -- 5:11PM, mountain_man wrote:


I didn't read the story, but was it as extrajudicial and inhumane as murder by drone?



The answer to that is: Yes. You're absolutely right about that. (Some of the comments make that same point.)


The difference is between attacking and/or defending against a foreign enemy; versus murdering your own people who are defenseless and captives in your hands.




It depends what you mean by "your own people".  Is it your family, your neighbors, your state, your country, your ideological buddies, your team mates?


It's not OK to do it to them but it is  OK to do it to "the others"? For some of us,  any human being is our family.



In this case "your own people" refers to those in your country.


Ask yourself the questions: If, your brother was going to kill the rest of "... our family ..."; would you kill him if that was the only way to save them?


Would you abort a woman whose fetus is killing her, would make its siblings all orphans and its father a widower, especially if it was going to die itself anyway?

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Nov 26, 2012 - 8:55AM #7
arielg
Posts: 9,116


In this case "your own people" refers to those in your country.


So, "your country" is the last principle that decides when it is OK to kill someone. Not what is right or wrong, but your country.


Ask yourself the questions: If, your brother was going to kill the rest of "... our family ..."; would you kill him if that was the only way to save them?


Would you abort a woman whose fetus is killing her, would make its siblings all orphans and its father a widower, especially if it was going to die itself anyway?


Those are extreme  examples that happen so rarely in life that it is not necessary to have  a fixed idea of what is the proper way to react to them. Circumstances will tell.  It has nothing to do with pre-planning military attacks based on some ideological beliefs.  There is no "self-defense" in those. It is all aggression.


Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Nov 26, 2012 - 5:42PM #8
in_my_opinion
Posts: 2,924

Nov 26, 2012 -- 8:55AM, arielg wrote:



In this case "your own people" refers to those in your country.


So, "your country" is the last principle that decides when it is OK to kill someone. Not what is right or wrong, but your country.


Ask yourself the questions: If, your brother was going to kill the rest of "... our family ..."; would you kill him if that was the only way to save them?


Would you abort a woman whose fetus is killing her, would make its siblings all orphans and its father a widower, especially if it was going to die itself anyway?


Those are extreme  examples that happen so rarely in life that it is not necessary to have  a fixed idea of what is the proper way to react to them. Circumstances will tell.  It has nothing to do with pre-planning military attacks based on some ideological beliefs.  There is no "self-defense" in those. It is all aggression.




They are not "... extreme examples that happen so rarely in life ..."; if, as we're both claiming; they are all our family!


It happens all the time when you really think of everyone as your family.


Palestinians sending missiles into Israel and the Israeli woman they kill, are all my siblings.


The  old woman who grieves her grandson killed in an exchange of fire is grandmother to both of us.


So, our brothers ready to kill our brothers on either side of the border are close kin, too.


We can't choose our relatives. God chooses them for us.


 


Flesh of our flesh


Blood of our blood


Borne by One Mother


Sired by the same Father


closer than cousins, killing close


We shame the family, a tearful humanity


when we dip in those ruby drops our careless daggers


Then go we poor into His Eternal Court, with heads hanging; beggars


Are we yet aiming for the sister soul's heart's essence? still ready to pull triggers?

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Nov 26, 2012 - 10:46PM #9
jane2
Posts: 14,295

Nov 26, 2012 -- 5:42PM, in_my_opinion wrote:


Nov 26, 2012 -- 8:55AM, arielg wrote:



In this case "your own people" refers to those in your country.


So, "your country" is the last principle that decides when it is OK to kill someone. Not what is right or wrong, but your country.


Ask yourself the questions: If, your brother was going to kill the rest of "... our family ..."; would you kill him if that was the only way to save them?


Would you abort a woman whose fetus is killing her, would make its siblings all orphans and its father a widower, especially if it was going to die itself anyway?


Those are extreme  examples that happen so rarely in life that it is not necessary to have  a fixed idea of what is the proper way to react to them. Circumstances will tell.  It has nothing to do with pre-planning military attacks based on some ideological beliefs.  There is no "self-defense" in those. It is all aggression.




They are not "... extreme examples that happen so rarely in life ..."; if, as we're both claiming; they are all our family!


It happens all the time when you really think of everyone as your family.


Palestinians sending missiles into Israel and the Israeli woman they kill, are all my siblings.


The  old woman who grieves her grandson killed in an exchange of fire is grandmother to both of us.


So, our brothers ready to kill our brothers on either side of the border are close kin, too.


We can't choose our relatives. God chooses them for us.


 


Flesh of our flesh


Blood of our blood


Borne by One Mother


Sired by the same Father


closer than cousins, killing close


We shame the family, a tearful humanity


when we dip in those ruby drops our careless daggers


Then go we poor into His Eternal Court, with heads hanging; beggars


Are we yet aiming for the sister soul's heart's essence? still ready to pull triggers?




Too obtuse and arcane.

discuss catholicism
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Nov 27, 2012 - 3:34AM #10
in_my_opinion
Posts: 2,924

Nov 26, 2012 -- 10:46PM, jane2 wrote:


Nov 26, 2012 -- 5:42PM, in_my_opinion wrote:


Nov 26, 2012 -- 8:55AM, arielg wrote:



In this case "your own people" refers to those in your country.


So, "your country" is the last principle that decides when it is OK to kill someone. Not what is right or wrong, but your country.


Ask yourself the questions: If, your brother was going to kill the rest of "... our family ..."; would you kill him if that was the only way to save them?


Would you abort a woman whose fetus is killing her, would make its siblings all orphans and its father a widower, especially if it was going to die itself anyway?


Those are extreme  examples that happen so rarely in life that it is not necessary to have  a fixed idea of what is the proper way to react to them. Circumstances will tell.  It has nothing to do with pre-planning military attacks based on some ideological beliefs.  There is no "self-defense" in those. It is all aggression.




They are not "... extreme examples that happen so rarely in life ..."; if, as we're both claiming; they are all our family!


It happens all the time when you really think of everyone as your family.


Palestinians sending missiles into Israel and the Israeli woman they kill, are all my siblings.


The  old woman who grieves her grandson killed in an exchange of fire is grandmother to both of us.


So, our brothers ready to kill our brothers on either side of the border are close kin, too.


We can't choose our relatives. God chooses them for us.


 


Flesh of our flesh


Blood of our blood


Borne by One Mother


Sired by the same Father


closer than cousins, killing close


We shame the family, a tearful humanity


when we dip in those ruby drops our careless daggers


Then go we poor into His Eternal Court, with heads hanging; beggars


Are we yet aiming for the sister soul's heart's essence? still ready to pull triggers?




Too obtuse and arcane.



Dear Jane,


Poetry is not everyone's strongest suit.


If, you wish an explanation for any line; will be glad and gleefully would explain.

Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 1 of 2  •  1 2 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook