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Switch to Forum Live View Vegetarian....To Be Or Not To Be
2 years ago  ::  Nov 20, 2012 - 11:41PM #1
solfeggio
Posts: 8,905
A new Gallup poll shows that in the U.S., 5% of the people asked said that they were vegetarians.  The percentage is pretty much unchanged in the last thirteen years.  And it is the same across the board, with no differences in age, education, or lifestyle.

www.gallup.com/poll/156215/consider-them...

Other studies this year have shown that Americans are eating less meat, mainly because the price is going up, but also for environmental and ethical concerns.

abcnews.go.com/Health/beef-putting-meat-...   

Another recent study showed that eating less meat could mean more food for the expanding human world population.

www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/10/13/less-me...   

So, in the world, which country eats the most meat per person?  Luxembourg.

www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/03/world-...

And which country eats the least?  India.

www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/20...

My country of New Zealand is right up there with the big-time meat eaters, too.  But what is interesting is to compare that amounts of meat consumed by the top three countries with the bottom three.  It is striking.        

    
   
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2 years ago  ::  Nov 21, 2012 - 1:04AM #2
Miraj
Posts: 5,020

Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. Meat. 


I expect I've made myself clear :-D

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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2 years ago  ::  Nov 21, 2012 - 1:15AM #3
Aka_me
Posts: 11,892

Nov 20, 2012 -- 11:41PM, solfeggio wrote:

My country of New Zealand is right up there with the big-time meat eaters, too.  But what is interesting is to compare that amounts of meat consumed by the top three countries with the bottom three.  It is striking.



people who are conditioned to think they require large quantities of meat daily


and/or people who don't care about environmental impact


will need as much time as the civil rights and era required.

internet troll... anyone who won't stop posting about bad spelling.
the government KILLS and EXPERIMENTS and TORTURES people, without ever apologizing, being held accountable or punished. and you expect me to believe they've automagically grown a conscience to not continue? like bloody hades they have.
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2 years ago  ::  Nov 21, 2012 - 3:01AM #4
d_p_m
Posts: 9,573
I liked the BBC survey of vegetarians where a number of the self-identified vegetarians were vegetarians who ate chicken and fish.

:)

I could probably do that for a week.


PS. I was always in favour of classifying the domestic turkey as an honourary vegetable.
"If you aren't confused by quantum physics, you haven't really understood it."

― Niels Bohr



"One need only watch a few minutes of any Orphan Black episode to see why Tatiana Maslany deserves to win every acting award available."

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2 years ago  ::  Nov 21, 2012 - 7:19AM #5
costrel
Posts: 6,226

Nov 21, 2012 -- 1:15AM, Aka_me wrote:

people who are conditioned to think they require large quantities of meat daily


and/or people who don't care about environmental impact


will need as much time as the civil rights and era required.


As you probably know, the Dust Bowl of the Dirty Thirties was primarily caused by bad farming practices associated with agriculture and the growing of wheat. Had places like Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, and the Dakotas focused on cattle and grazing rather than plowing up the soil to plant crops, the Dust Bowl and the Dirty Thirties would not have happened. As long as human beings destroy vast amounts of virgin wilderness and vast amounts of forests and prairies in order to create fields for the growing of grains, fruits, and vegetables, we will continue to destroy the environment and have negative impacts upon it.


Out in eastern South Dakota, for instance, nearly every spot of available land that does not have houses, businesses, highways, and parking lots on it has been converted into plowed fields for crops. The prairie ecosystem that was on the eastern South Dakota plains during the days of the bison herds no longer exists. So people can say all they like that becoming vegetarian or vegan is going to help the environment, but I wonder just how much more land is going to have to be plowed, and how much more land deforested, in order to plant the crops necessary to feed people who survive exclusively on a meatless diet. In a few centuries, every continent (with perhaps the exception of Antarctica) may be nothing more than vast cities and vast fields of crops, with no wilderness left for the wild animals and the wild plants. 

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2 years ago  ::  Nov 21, 2012 - 9:41AM #6
Aka_me
Posts: 11,892

Nov 21, 2012 -- 7:19AM, costrel wrote:


Nov 21, 2012 -- 1:15AM, Aka_me wrote:

people who are conditioned to think they require large quantities of meat daily


and/or people who don't care about environmental impact


will need as much time as the civil rights and era required.


As you probably know, the Dust Bowl of the Dirty Thirties was primarily caused by bad farming practices associated with agriculture and the growing of wheat. Had places like Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, and the Dakotas focused on cattle and grazing rather than plowing up the soil to plant crops, the Dust Bowl and the Dirty Thirties would not have happened. As long as human beings destroy vast amounts of virgin wilderness and vast amounts of forests and prairies in order to create fields for the growing of grains, fruits, and vegetables, we will continue to destroy the environment and have negative impacts upon it.


Out in eastern South Dakota, for instance, nearly every spot of available land that does not have houses, businesses, highways, and parking lots on it has been converted into plowed fields for crops. The prairie ecosystem that was on the eastern South Dakota plains during the days of the bison herds no longer exists. So people can say all they like that becoming vegetarian or vegan is going to help the environment, but I wonder just how much more land is going to have to be plowed, and how much more land deforested, in order to plant the crops necessary to feed people who survive exclusively on a meatless diet. In a few centuries, every continent (with perhaps the exception of Antarctica) may be nothing more than vast cities and vast fields of crops, with no wilderness left for the wild animals and the wild plants.



THIS is exactly what I mean by requiring significant time for those under the influence of the american propaganda machine to stop living and breathing under the influence...


A pound of beef (live weight) requires about seven pounds of feed.


consider how many pounds of live weight end up on the dinner table, I have no idea MAYBE 50 percent?


now we're at 14 pounds of feed to one pound of hamberberg.


if you that one pound of hamberger is more filling and nutrious than 14 pounds of fruits and vegetables.


Ranching-induced deforestation is one of the main causes of loss of some unique plant and animal species in the tropical rainforests of Central and South America as well as carbon release in the atmosphere."


the environmental destruction is happening... to make room for more cattle.


and after burning down rain forest... the cows' burping and farting become a significant producer of greenhouse gas.


1. energy consumed.


2. water consumed.


3. land impact.


4. greenhouse gas produced.



now... see if you can find statistics which support your delusion.

internet troll... anyone who won't stop posting about bad spelling.
the government KILLS and EXPERIMENTS and TORTURES people, without ever apologizing, being held accountable or punished. and you expect me to believe they've automagically grown a conscience to not continue? like bloody hades they have.
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2 years ago  ::  Nov 21, 2012 - 10:24AM #7
mountain_man
Posts: 38,737

Nov 21, 2012 -- 3:01AM, d_p_m wrote:

I liked the BBC survey of vegetarians where a number of the self-identified vegetarians were vegetarians who ate chicken and fish. :) ....


That's like this poll I read where it said that something like 60% of Atheists pray. Innocent

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  Nov 21, 2012 - 10:27AM #8
costrel
Posts: 6,226

Nov 21, 2012 -- 9:41AM, Aka_me wrote:

THIS is exactly what I mean by requiring significant time for those under the influence of the american propaganda machine to stop living and breathing under the influence...


A pound of beef (live weight) requires about seven pounds of feed.


consider how many pounds of live weight end up on the dinner table, I have no idea MAYBE 50 percent?


now we're at 14 pounds of feed to one pound of hamberberg.


if you that one pound of hamberger is more filling and nutrious than 14 pounds of fruits and vegetables.


Ranching-induced deforestation is one of the main causes of loss of some unique plant and animal species in the tropical rainforests of Central and South America as well as carbon release in the atmosphere."


the environmental destruction is happening... to make room for more cattle.


and after burning down rain forest... the cows' burping and farting become a significant producer of greenhouse gas.


1. energy consumed.


2. water consumed.


3. land impact.


4. greenhouse gas produced.



now... see if you can find statistics which support your delusion.


After all of our discussions, you still don't really understand my positions, do you? I find both farming and ranching to be destructive to the environment, understand the destructive role that my farming ancestors had on the land that led to the Dust Bowl, and consider humanity's pre-agricultural past, that of hunting and gathering, to have been better than both farming and ranching. Unfortunately, too many people live in cities these days, too many people buy their food at grocery stores, etc., and there are too many people on the planet for everyone to survive as hunters and gatherers. In fact, if one believes some of the conclusions of scholars, North America's ancient hunters themselves might have either actually killed off the large mammals such as the mastodons, or at least significantly aided in their demise.  


I understand that wherever humans have gone, especially Euro-Americans, the land has been destroyed. If I can understand your single-sentence paragraphs with their shoddy grammar, it is good news to hear that less energy is consumed, etc., for vegetarian agriculture than cattle ranching. (Now, what about the production of milk and eggs? Do people have to become vegans and let the chickens and the cows run wild, or can people also raise cows and chickens for eggs and milk, I wonder?)


Unlike the vegans and vegetarians who post on this Hot Topics board, I don't have everything figured out, nor do I consider myself to be superior to other people. Perhaps vegans and vegetarians should try a little humility every now and then rather than damning those of us who haven't given up our meat, cheese, milk, and eggs as a bunch of delusional fools. You've already turned me off from your Baha'i religion and its prophet Baha'u'llah -- try not to turn me off completely from the possibilty of ever becoming a vegetarian or a vegan as well. Currently I drink milk and eat cheese every day, though I only eat meat every couple of days. Perhaps some day I may give up all meat, eggs, cheese, milk, yogurt, and other dairy products. But if I ever do become a vegetarian or a vegan, it will not be because of the jeremiads of vegetarian and vegan missionaries here on Beliefnet and/or religious theists such as yourself who consider me to be delusional.  

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2 years ago  ::  Nov 21, 2012 - 10:32AM #9
costrel
Posts: 6,226

Nov 21, 2012 -- 3:01AM, d_p_m wrote:

I liked the BBC survey of vegetarians where a number of the self-identified vegetarians were vegetarians who ate chicken and fish. :) I could probably do that for a week. PS. I was always in favour of classifying the domestic turkey as an honourary vegetable.


I knew a few of those "vegetarians" in college who still ate chicken and fish. They said they were vegetarians, but it turned out they just didn't eat red meat. (Of course, as Catholics know, fish can be consumed on meatless Fridays.) And in Japan, some Japanese Buddhists explained to me that if one eats the entire fish (including its bones, eyes, blood, and scales) then that is also a form of "vegetarianism," because the entire animal is being consumed. To this day I still don't know if they were serious or just joking with the foreigner (me). So I ate the entire amago fish, from its skull to its scales, but I sure didn't feel as if I had eaten a vegetarian dinner that night. 

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2 years ago  ::  Nov 21, 2012 - 11:29AM #10
Aka_me
Posts: 11,892

Nov 21, 2012 -- 10:27AM, costrel wrote:

After all of our discussions, you still don't really understand my positions, do you?



allow me to reiterate your point:


Nov 21, 2012 -- 7:19AM, costrel wrote:

So people can say all they like that becoming vegetarian or vegan is going to help the environment, but I wonder just how much more land is going to have to be plowed, and how much more land deforested, in order to plant the crops necessary to feed people who survive exclusively on a meatless diet.



FUTURE population growth by vegetarians will produce the same environmental impact as TODAY'S environmental impact of carnivors... right?


response: since we haven't got to the future yet, we can't say if there will be as much growth as you predict. yet it remains A FACT that reducing meat consumption will reduce current environmental impact.


do you dispute that fact?


Nov 21, 2012 -- 10:27AM, costrel wrote:

You've already turned me off from your Baha'i religion and its prophet Baha'u'llah



what the heck does that have to do with ANYTHING? try to stick to the topic at hand.


Nov 21, 2012 -- 10:27AM, costrel wrote:

-- try not to turn me off completely from the possibilty of ever becoming a vegetarian or a vegan as well.



1. if you delusionally think you can reiterate my point... you would see that I have never proselytized vegetarianism.


2. I can't worry myself about what turns you on or turns you off, I can only supply you with facts and let you do with them as you will.

internet troll... anyone who won't stop posting about bad spelling.
the government KILLS and EXPERIMENTS and TORTURES people, without ever apologizing, being held accountable or punished. and you expect me to believe they've automagically grown a conscience to not continue? like bloody hades they have.
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