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Switch to Forum Live View The Muslim World Needs To Change
9 months ago  ::  Oct 09, 2012 - 10:08PM #281
rangerken
rangerken
Posts: 13,837

Oct 9, 2012 -- 9:35AM, Dostojevsky wrote:


"No one is attacking anyone that "holds some things dear and in high esteem." I don't know where you got that from."


MM bit lost here.


If Iwere a Muslim and I wee to hold Muhhamed dear and in high esteem and you by riddiculing him riddicule me,  that is attack.




Yes it is an attack...a verbal attack...a totally acceptable, legitimate, statement of opinion attacking your opinion which must...absolutely must be not only allowed but defended in any free society.


Opinions, political positions, religious beliefs, supersitions (which is what religions one oes not believe in may fairly be called), etc and so forth are all just what the first word says, opinions...nothing else! And all are subject to debate, argument, ridicule, being made fun of, being treated with contempt and disdain, and anything else...and just by the way, all may be supported and defended too!


If I 'think' Muahammed is NOT a prophet (and  do not 'think' so), and if I do not 'think' the Koran is the least bit holy, and I do not 'think' so, and if I do not 'think' Islam is a 'true religion' and I do not 'think' so, I can, and will say so...with the full expectation that no 'world' will do more than disagree. And that 'world' may, of course, say the same in return about my religion with the same expection that I will do not more than disagree.


And the Muslim 'world' needs to move into the modern era and understand and accept that Islam is not anymore or less special than any other superstition...er...religion and is no more enitled to respect than any other supestition...er...religion.


Ken


PS. I will note that in this case, Mountainman and I, who are fierce opponents in most things political, are in complete agreement when it comes to freedom of expression, and I fully agree with his comment in the post before this one.

Conservative, Libertarian, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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9 months ago  ::  Oct 09, 2012 - 10:13PM #282
jane2
jane2
Posts: 13,779

Oct 5, 2012 -- 11:39AM, TemplarS wrote:


Oct 4, 2012 -- 10:55PM, mountain_man wrote:


 Of course they have the right to disagree, peacefully, with anything anyone says. They do not have the right to prevent anyone from saying it.


Right now an organization that represents 57 Muslim nations wants, in the UN, all talk of homosexuality to cease. That same organization wants to pass a resolution banning any negative comments on Islam. That would not fly here in the USA. I, and many others, will fight to prevent such censorship.




I agree with everything Dave has said in this and other posts.  Thank you, Dave.


Some have questioned the use of the term "Muslim World", since as is quite true Muslims live all over the world.


I would suggest that the term "Muslim World" as used in the inital post was not intended to mean all Muslims; but rather precisely this sort of "organization that represents 57 Muslim nations."


Arguably, what the Salafis do in Egypt, or the Wahabis in Saudi Arabia,  is nobody's business but the Egyptians and the Saudis; but when they begin talking about UN resolutions, or international anti-blasphemy laws, or killing American film-makers or Danish cartoonists or Indian authors who alleged insult the Prophet, it becomes all of our business.


 




Indeed it does............




 
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9 months ago  ::  Oct 10, 2012 - 4:49AM #283
Dostojevsky
Dostojevsky
Posts: 4,856

From Huffington post I am sure you have all heard about it -


"As reported by Gawker, Adler's article, written earlier this month, describes the urgency in protecting the Israeli people from threats such as Hamas and Hezbollah and argues that there are essentially only three options available to Israel: 1. attack Hezbollah and Hamas; 2. "order the destruction of Iran's nuclear facilities at all costs;" 3. assassinate Obama."


Andrew Adler publisher of Atlanta Jewish Times  appologised and resigned.


Can anyone imagine any Muslim in a single room abode somewhere with the internet on getting away that easy? Or the publishers of Atlanta Muslim Times?  FBI would have been there in seconds and they'd be charged with treason


Quote MM:


"Of course they have the right to disagree, peacefully, with anything anyone says. They do not have the right to prevent anyone from saying it."


Then why DID Adler resign?


 
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9 months ago  ::  Oct 10, 2012 - 10:01PM #284
mountain_man
mountain_man
Posts: 34,479

Oct 10, 2012 -- 4:49AM, Dostojevsky wrote:

From Huffington post I am sure you have all heard about it -


"As reported by Gawker, Adler's article, written earlier this month, describes the urgency in protecting the Israeli people from threats such as Hamas and Hezbollah....


They always forget the other option; for Israel to stop attacking and occupying it's neighbors.


Then why DID Adler resign?


You'll have to ask him. I am not a mind reader. It is an oft used, also extremely sophomoric and disingenuous, argument that freedom of speech also includes freedom from disagreement. Adler could say whatever he wants, and if he says something stupid he should understand that people have the right to disagree. Freedom of speech is not a one way street. Also, many have this silly belief that if someone says something really stupid that that person should not suffer for it or pay the consequences.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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