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Switch to Forum Live View Another Great Reason to Love & Accept Shari'a Law in America
6 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2012 - 7:27PM #41
Abner1
Posts: 6,624

Abner1 wrote:


>> You act more like a mousetrap, snapping at anyone who touches it whether they're


>> a mouse or not.  It might be better if you gave up your self-appointed "token Muslim"


>> status until you're a bit less hair-trigger and a bit more careful about responding


>> to what someone actually wrote.


Miraj wrote:


> You think you should decide what I say, how I say it and when I say it?


No.  If I thought that, I would have said so.  You just "mousetrapped" again.


Do yourself a favor and spend your time lecturing someone else.


A very good suggestion.  No point trying to discuss anything with someone when they're not hearing what you're saying.

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6 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2012 - 8:13PM #42
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 19,045

The problem with nonsense like the OP is that it distracts from very real concerns.


There is absolutely no threat that "Sharia Law" is going to be imposed upon America.


There is very little threat from American Muslims and the threat that exists is the same as from any other group of Americans. You are going to get a certain number of bad apples who end up on the wrong side of the law in any group. Since part of my practice includes representing people who get in trouble, I have met a few of these people. Believe me, being Muslim has nothing to do with their alleged actions. I have yet to meet a religiously motivated drug dealer, burglarer or brawler.


There is a threat from a very small percentage of people who call themselves Muslim. The fact that they call themselves Muslim is not the problem. The problem is their political ideas (which they associate with their religious ideas) and their willingness to use anti-social, criminal and terrorist methods to advance those ideas. These people would be a threat if they called themselves Christians, followers of the Great Spaghetti Monster, or anything else. 


We need to keep ourt eyes on those very few folks who actually are a threat, no matter what they wish to call themselves, and leave everyone who is not alone, even those who might call themselves by the same or similar names. Obsessing over crap like the "threat of Sharia Law" does nothing but distract us from actual problems and concerns.

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6 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2012 - 8:21PM #43
loveontheair
Posts: 4,057

Hello,



Just bringing up Islamofascim and Christianity can start a riot on these boards. Much emotion on both sides. I've been in the middle way too much, especially with friends I have who are Muslim who live in LA that I've known for over 30 years. They're secular and moderate Muslims who work hard and make a decent living. I will say that many are ignorant about Muslims. Many have never talked to a Muslim. Many have never worked with a Muslim. Many have never Volunteered at a Muslim Community Center as I have. There's more to learning than Wikipedia thus we have temper-tantrums here on the forums. Just present your information and let the discussions go where they go.



love

Good works will never produce faith, but faith will always produce good works. loveontheair
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2012 - 9:33PM #44
mountain_man
Posts: 44,029

Aug 1, 2012 -- 12:27AM, Miraj wrote:

Shar'ia is not BS, and it's already here.


No, it is not. Can a sharia court sentence anyone to prison? Can I go there instead of municipal court for a traffic ticket? No? Then sharia law being established here in the USA is nothing more than paranoid BS.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.   Isaac Asimov
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2012 - 9:40PM #45
mountain_man
Posts: 44,029

Aug 1, 2012 -- 12:56PM, 3neez wrote:

Well then, if the problem is as the many detractors here say, why does this article refer to it as Sharia Law?...


I don't really know how to put this nicely, but only a person that is not fully sane could compare what is going on in Mali with the USA. Even trying to make such an argument is insulting. Why would you believe anyone here is stupid enough to fall for such tactics?

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.   Isaac Asimov
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2012 - 9:43PM #46
mountain_man
Posts: 44,029

Aug 1, 2012 -- 4:25PM, 3neez wrote:

Talk all one likes about Christianity and no gets offended. Speak of Islam, then everyone's offended.


You are lying about Islam. There is a difference.




Moderated by rangerken on Aug 08, 2012 - 11:38PM
Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.   Isaac Asimov
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2012 - 10:11PM #47
WannabeTheo
Posts: 401

Aug 1, 2012 -- 4:25PM, 3neez wrote:


Talk all one likes about Christianity and no gets offended. Speak of Islam, then everyone's offended.





Well, I have no problem condemning the actions of the Islamist rebels/executioners.  And the actions of those destroying historical shrines.  There is no doubt much evil is done in the name of Islam; and the primary victims of ultra-strict Islamism are Muslims.


What I object to is using these tragic events to justify fear and suspicion of all Muslims, especially my countrymen.  The story in the OP is a tragedy, and the perpetrators most certainly deserve the harshest damnation.  But it has nothing to do with Muslim Americans, as implied in the thread title.


This whole "the Muslims are going to impose Sharia law on us" hysteria is a boogeyman cooked up by ultra-conservative politicians to get votes.

Moderated by rangerken on Aug 08, 2012 - 11:38PM
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2012 - 10:28PM #48
mountain_man
Posts: 44,029

Aug 1, 2012 -- 10:11PM, WannabeTheo wrote:

....This whole "the Muslims are going to impose Sharia law on us" hysteria is a boogeyman cooked up by ultra-conservative politicians to get votes.


The sad, and shocking, part is that it's working.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.   Isaac Asimov
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2012 - 10:59PM #49
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

Aug 1, 2012 -- 9:33PM, mountain_man wrote:


Aug 1, 2012 -- 12:27AM, Miraj wrote:

Shar'ia is not BS, and it's already here.


No, it is not. Can a sharia court sentence anyone to prison? Can I go there instead of municipal court for a traffic ticket? No? Then sharia law being established here in the USA is nothing more than paranoid BS.




Yes, it is.  That is a fact.  Every observant Muslim in the US practices Shari'a.  It is what makes us Muslim.  Shari'a is not a court.  There are fiqh courts, not Shari'a courts, where Islamic law is practiced.  I'm a formally trained Islamic law attorney, so it's incumbant upon me to know the difference.  That is part of the misunderstanding; I've explained the difference before.  It doesn't seem to stick.  Perhaps this will:


For millions of pious American citizens, sharia has a meaning different than that conjured by Duncan. In Arabic, it literally means "a path to water in the desert," and prior to any specific rules, sharia refers to just and righteous human relationships in accordance with God's designs. Sharia thus functions in the same way that the term "gospel" does. For devout Christians, the gospel is not a complex theology but the basic revelation of God's goodness to the world.


Over the centuries Muslim jurists have expounded sharia into a detailed system of rules. In Arabic these interpretations are called not sharia but fiqh. It is in the fiqh that one finds the rules that make "sharia law" a flash point, rules such as the stoning of adulterers or the execution of apostates from Islam. It is important to realize, however, that one may be a pious Muslim and reject the application of these rules while still retaining allegiance to sharia, just as it is possible for a Catholic to affirm her belief in the Christian gospel without accepting the methods of the Spanish Inquisition.


American courts have been asked to apply sharia law in some cases. Two parties may agree by contract to some provision of fiqh. In addition, under legal principles dating to the founding, American courts routinely apply the law of foreign countries to disputes arising out of events in those countries. Some countries use portions of the fiqh in their legal code. Hence, for example, one federal court has applied Islamic law limiting the charging of interest to a contract between two American companies for the construction of a facility in Saudi Arabia.


Source

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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6 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2012 - 11:02PM #50
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

Aug 1, 2012 -- 6:37PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


Aug 1, 2012 -- 4:25PM, 3neez wrote:


Talk all one likes about Christianity and no gets offended. Speak of Islam, then everyone's offended.


I only thought I had witnessed some of the greatest intellectual circle-jerks of our time, but I'm wrong.   




Look, I have no more use for uber-politically correct talk about the "Christian Taliban" than I'm guessing you do.


Yes, "Christians" especially "conservative Christans" are a favorite scape goat on B'Net boards, it seems. Follow my posts on the Christianity board -- I take those clownish ideas to task all the time, and will continue to do so. 


The thing of it is, you're not "speaking" about Islam. You're making negative attacks based on cherry-picking, half-truths and outright lies.


There is nothing wrong with being critical of religion, or religious ideas and traditions.  


I'll be just a quick to critizise the Islamic notion of Muhammed literally as the "seal" of the Prophets -- and therefore, God would offer no revelation after that -- as I am of the Nicean doctrine of a literal Trinity in much of Christianity. I have no problem pointing out to Muslims that dis-allowing Christians, Baha'is and Jews full religious freedom in some of their countries goes directly against what their own Prophet taught.


But, I'm not going around, trying to suggest that Christianity is inately evil, and all Christians are therefore potentially dangerous.


Again, much of the "speaking" about Islam these days is rooted in that. I think your threads regarding Islam here are doing that. You're trying to "prove" Islam is an inherent, and dangerous evil, and Muslims are incompatable with the U.S. And you're using all the same B.S. that's been around for years, and has been ratcheted up since 9-11.


There's a difference between not agreeing with something, and being hostile toward it, because of ignorance, bad information, selective information, misinformation or outright lies.




Very well said.

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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