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2 years ago  ::  Jul 31, 2012 - 7:08PM #11
Stardove
Posts: 15,558

Arizona just recently passed a abortion law not allowing abortion after 20 weeks.



Fatal Fetal Defect Counselors Brace For Influx of Families After Arizona’s Abortion Ban

Arizona’s new 20-week abortion ban goes into effect Thursday, with very real effects for families expecting babies with fatal fetal defects. The Arizona Republic reports on volunteer services rising to the challenge of helping parents cope with the trauma of watching infants die within minutes, hours, or days of birth.

House Bill 2036, which measures a fetus’ gestational age from the first day of the woman’s last period, prevents abortion after 18 weeks of pregnancy, making it the most extreme ban in the nation. Most fetal abnormalities are detected during this period, but the ban forbids abortions even when the doctor discovers a fatal defect. The woman must then carry to term a baby who will almost certainly die as soon as it is born.



Continued at link.  The bill being discussed in the House today would basically force women whose babies will not live at birth or long after birth to carry the babies to term and deliver a dead baby.  Years back we had a niece which was full term and died shortly before birth.  The mother had to deliver a dead full term baby.  What a painful experience to put woman through.


As I heard one Representative say today on C-SPAN this bill is nothing more than another unneeded distraction.


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2 years ago  ::  Jul 31, 2012 - 7:45PM #12
jane2
Posts: 14,295

Jul 31, 2012 -- 6:04PM, Paravani wrote:


You're welcome, Jane.  Glad to be of assistance!


So how are the grandkids et al?  Still superlatively braggable?


;-D


Love,


Claudia




Thanks, Claudia.  Those grandchildren continue to shine. I'm one lucky nana.................And the oldest will be 21 in October!!




 

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 31, 2012 - 8:46PM #13
3neez
Posts: 9,522

If I'm not mistaken there is a U.S. Federal fine of $20,000 for destroying a single Bald Eagle egg.

"The end of beginning is over"

"When you are dead, you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others. It is the same when you are stupid." - Ricky Gervais

“In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, For then it costs nothing to be a patriot.” - Mark Twain
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 31, 2012 - 11:45PM #14
Erey
Posts: 18,940

Claudia, a pressing medical need will mean that a child can't survive outside of the womb without extreme measures or the child has no hope of something that can be broadly considered a normal life with the hope of something resembling independant living.  That does not mean the child has a cleft palate or the child is the wrong gender or your boyfriend pissed you off. 

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2 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2012 - 12:46AM #15
karbie
Posts: 3,329

with the Arizona law counting the embryo's life as starting at the last day of a woman's period, it means even the 'day after" pill would be illegal. any contraceptive would technically be illegal because you would be actively placing your own life ahead of a possible embryo by rendering your uterus unable to let a "possible" fertilized egg to implant.


If a fetus is capable of surviving outside the mother's body, then it should have that chance. I don't mean that the woman should have to pay for it or be responsible for the lifetime of care involved in raising a child. The church groups and ultra conservatives who are still trying to overturn abortion laws can cough up the money from their war chests to provide for the lives they've "saved".


There aren't that many doctors who will perform abortions in the third trimester. One was killed inside his church during a church service. The gunman also wounded a member of the congregation and the man's wife got to see the whole murder along with the rest of the congregation.


And the celebrations and gloating over the killer having done "the Lord's work" by disrupting a service and traumatizing the congregation never seemed to mind where the murder took place.


 Abaortion is considered a State issue and while Arizona's law is by far the most vindictive, it was again hailed as a victory.


While this law sounds reasonable--it isn't. It's the same old shell game that places greater rights to a fertilized egg than the woman carrying it. I will admit that 22 weeks is more liberal than in many states. Indiana and many other states used to have a cut-off date of 8 weeks on abortions.


I just find it ironic that the groups that are against abortion in every way shape and form don't want to fund any programs that would help take care of these children once they've arrived.


I just get uncomfortable with legislating what another woman can and can't do with her own body.

"You are letting your opinion be colored by facts again."
'When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."
these are both from my father.
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2012 - 12:52AM #16
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

I'm not pro-abortion.  The pill and liberal abortion laws have cheapened human life.  I'm all for rolling it back.

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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2 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2012 - 2:28AM #17
karbie
Posts: 3,329

I don't think that anyone is "pro-abortion"--what I believe in is doing all that we can to educate our children about contraceptives and-letting them know that unprotected sex can literally put your life and health at risk. The bush years of refusing Federal funding unless all a school taught was abstinence was endangering the lives and futures of teens.


Somehow I got to be the one to have hte "talk" with my son--and I told him that if he did indeed become sexually active I'd rather buy him condoms than have him get an STD. I also told him there was nothing wrong with masturbation in privacy. I do know that both he and his wife were virgins when they started dating and the rest of it isn't any of my business.


I've been in the position of having a pregnancy confirmed and being told that there was no way I could carry it to term. Not what i wanted to hear after finally getting pregnant. Not even total bed rest. He told me that the longer the pregnancy went on, the greater the risk of the inevitable miscarriage causing so much damage I'd never be able to get pregnant again. That happened to my Grandma and she almost bled out.


I was always one of those--"It's okay for someone else, but I'd never do it." He gave me a prescription and the name of the clinic he thought I should go to. I made the appointment-which sickened my husband and I both. I miscarried 2 days before my appointment but still kept it because I knew I needed a D& C and the clinic was a lot less expensive than an ER. I'd been passing tissue all along. I was very grateful that the choice had been taken away from me, but we'd made it. So I have zilch right to tell anyone else what to do.


I've read posts over on the Abortion forum where they make it sound like the abortion clinics drag pregnant women off the streets and push abortion on them. We were given counseling, and I was given 3 chances to back out of the procedure. One with my husband present, two without him. Even the 15 year old back in recovery with me had been told that regardless of what her mother wanted, if she wanted to keep the baby they would not do the abortion.


There are a lot of women who are still suffering because their parents forced them to have abortions they didn't want to have. To me the choice is between the pregnant woman, her partner, her doctor and God if she's religious. Not the government.


We need better terms. You aren't anti-baby or anti-life if you think that a woman is more than just a womb. That a few cells have more rights to her body than she has. I just think that as long as the movement as "pro-life", the life that is already here and that is the woman.


"You are letting your opinion be colored by facts again."
'When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."
these are both from my father.
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2012 - 6:13AM #18
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

There are people who are pro-abortion.  They run the lobbies and make millions from the procedures.  I know people who have become very rich from abortion.  They are definitely pro-abortion.

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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2 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2012 - 9:27AM #19
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,394

Aug 1, 2012 -- 2:28AM, karbie wrote:


I don't think that anyone is "pro-abortion"--what I believe in is doing all that we can to educate our children about contraceptives and-letting them know that unprotected sex can literally put your life and health at risk. The bush years of refusing Federal funding unless all a school taught was abstinence was endangering the lives and futures of teens.


Somehow I got to be the one to have hte "talk" with my son--and I told him that if he did indeed become sexually active I'd rather buy him condoms than have him get an STD. I also told him there was nothing wrong with masturbation in privacy. I do know that both he and his wife were virgins when they started dating and the rest of it isn't any of my business.


I've been in the position of having a pregnancy confirmed and being told that there was no way I could carry it to term. Not what i wanted to hear after finally getting pregnant. Not even total bed rest. He told me that the longer the pregnancy went on, the greater the risk of the inevitable miscarriage causing so much damage I'd never be able to get pregnant again. That happened to my Grandma and she almost bled out.


I was always one of those--"It's okay for someone else, but I'd never do it." He gave me a prescription and the name of the clinic he thought I should go to. I made the appointment-which sickened my husband and I both. I miscarried 2 days before my appointment but still kept it because I knew I needed a D& C and the clinic was a lot less expensive than an ER. I'd been passing tissue all along. I was very grateful that the choice had been taken away from me, but we'd made it. So I have zilch right to tell anyone else what to do.


I've read posts over on the Abortion forum where they make it sound like the abortion clinics drag pregnant women off the streets and push abortion on them. We were given counseling, and I was given 3 chances to back out of the procedure. One with my husband present, two without him. Even the 15 year old back in recovery with me had been told that regardless of what her mother wanted, if she wanted to keep the baby they would not do the abortion.


There are a lot of women who are still suffering because their parents forced them to have abortions they didn't want to have. To me the choice is between the pregnant woman, her partner, her doctor and God if she's religious. Not the government.


We need better terms. You aren't anti-baby or anti-life if you think that a woman is more than just a womb. That a few cells have more rights to her body than she has. I just think that as long as the movement as "pro-life", the life that is already here and that is the woman.






You also aren't 'anti-woman' if you think that abortion is the killing of another human and that it should be limited.

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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2 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2012 - 10:59AM #20
3neez
Posts: 9,522

Aug 1, 2012 -- 9:27AM, Girlchristian wrote:

Aug 1, 2012 -- 2:28AM, karbie wrote:


I don't think that anyone is "pro-abortion"--what I believe in is doing all that we can to educate our children about contraceptives and-letting them know that unprotected sex can literally put your life and health at risk. The bush years of refusing Federal funding unless all a school taught was abstinence was endangering the lives and futures of teens.


Somehow I got to be the one to have hte "talk" with my son--and I told him that if he did indeed become sexually active I'd rather buy him condoms than have him get an STD. I also told him there was nothing wrong with masturbation in privacy. I do know that both he and his wife were virgins when they started dating and the rest of it isn't any of my business.


I've been in the position of having a pregnancy confirmed and being told that there was no way I could carry it to term. Not what i wanted to hear after finally getting pregnant. Not even total bed rest. He told me that the longer the pregnancy went on, the greater the risk of the inevitable miscarriage causing so much damage I'd never be able to get pregnant again. That happened to my Grandma and she almost bled out.


I was always one of those--"It's okay for someone else, but I'd never do it." He gave me a prescription and the name of the clinic he thought I should go to. I made the appointment-which sickened my husband and I both. I miscarried 2 days before my appointment but still kept it because I knew I needed a D& C and the clinic was a lot less expensive than an ER. I'd been passing tissue all along. I was very grateful that the choice had been taken away from me, but we'd made it. So I have zilch right to tell anyone else what to do.


I've read posts over on the Abortion forum where they make it sound like the abortion clinics drag pregnant women off the streets and push abortion on them. We were given counseling, and I was given 3 chances to back out of the procedure. One with my husband present, two without him. Even the 15 year old back in recovery with me had been told that regardless of what her mother wanted, if she wanted to keep the baby they would not do the abortion.


There are a lot of women who are still suffering because their parents forced them to have abortions they didn't want to have. To me the choice is between the pregnant woman, her partner, her doctor and God if she's religious. Not the government.


We need better terms. You aren't anti-baby or anti-life if you think that a woman is more than just a womb. That a few cells have more rights to her body than she has. I just think that as long as the movement as "pro-life", the life that is already here and that is the woman.






You also aren't 'anti-woman' if you think that abortion is the killing of another human and that it should be limited.


GC,


You are a ray of sunshine. hugs :)

"The end of beginning is over"

"When you are dead, you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others. It is the same when you are stupid." - Ricky Gervais

“In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, For then it costs nothing to be a patriot.” - Mark Twain
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