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Switch to Forum Live View Justice for Palestine
2 years ago  ::  Jul 21, 2012 - 8:33AM #71
LeahOne
Posts: 16,396

So who did you quote and from where, Dos?


And you should know, if it were so freakin' clear what you meant - Habesor wouldn't be asking. 

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 21, 2012 - 9:24AM #72
habesor
Posts: 5,723

Actually Dos, your quote was from a message posted by Exile3. I am a bit surprised that you disagree with her but any element of independent thinking is always to be welcomed, at least by me.


Habesor 

Habesor
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 21, 2012 - 6:03PM #73
Dostojevsky
Posts: 7,540

Jul 18, 2012 -- 5:41PM, LeahOne wrote:


Jul 18, 2012 -- 3:02PM, exile3 wrote:

I think if a people will knowingly desecrate graveyards, their trustworthines is serioudly called  into question.



Indeed, the irony here is tremendous. 


208.84.118.121/pf_1948to1967_holysites.p...


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Jerusalem


www.jewishpress.com/indepth/opinions/fea...


 BTW, Marie - I'm still waiting for your sources for the allegations that the Israelis have tried to 'undermine' the Temple Mount with their excavations. 



Ok, Habesor, Leah,  you see that line in quotation marks on the top? That is what I quoted and that is what I responded to. Perhaps Leah quoted somebody else or she had in in quotation because of its importance. As I said, it is irrelvant who said.


This man as freedom fighter representing thousands deserves a grave, a monument.


"It’s been almost forty-three years after his death by way of execution in October 9, 1967, though the name and image of Ernesto "Che" Guevara’s (birth name: Ernesto Rafael Guevara de la Serna) are still very much alive and well. To others, 'El Che' is nothing but a spokesman of a failing ideology and a ruthless executioner who did not afford others a legal process but, to some, he is a selfless hero who had lived, fought and died for what he believes in. Nelson Mandela has referred to him as: "An inspiration for every human being who loves freedom". There’s no denying the story of Che’s political struggle has captured the popular imagination so much that his image has become an iconic symbol of counterculture worldwide. College students throughout every continent still have posters of El Che and don T-shirts emblazoned with the late Latin American revolutionary’s face"


Freakin clear?Cry



Edit: quotations were not clear.  Corrected to reflect member's post

Moderated by Stardove on Jul 22, 2012 - 03:38PM
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 21, 2012 - 8:27PM #74
LeahOne
Posts: 16,396

Absolutely NOT clear, Dos.


It makes a difference to me when someone saddles me with another's words.  I'd like to think such blatant disregard for accuracy would distress anyone, including Marie who made the statement.


So why don't you read back a few posts, Dos.  What Habesor asked you was very simple.  And no, you haven't given anything resembling a clear answer.  I assure you neither Habesor nor I are 'playing dumb'.

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 21, 2012 - 11:06PM #75
habesor
Posts: 5,723

Dos,


The only thing clear to me is that you are doing your best to wriggle out of a discussion in which you have blundered. You are trying to change the subject while at the same time playing what in Hebrew is called Rosh Kattan; in English I believe that this is called playing stupid. 


Exile3 questioned Israel's performance as the sovereign power by raising the issue of alleged Israeli desecration of a disused Muslim cemetery. When it was pointed out that during Arab rule Jewish cemeteries, holy sites and synagogues were desecrated on a massive scale (we didn't even get to the denial of Jewish access to holy sites or restrictions put on Christian religious observance and education) you, I suspect by mistake, downplayed the importance of cemeteries. I suppose that for you any transgression by the Arabs is unimportant but you didn't realize that you were also downgrading the importance of an alleged transgression by the Jews. Oops!! Now you seem to be  rambling on about any superfluous item that you can think of. 


Exile3, hasn't been back to continue the discussion. That's a shame. I disagree with her but at least she was game enough to discuss my peace proposals.


Habesor

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 22, 2012 - 4:42AM #76
Dostojevsky
Posts: 7,540

Habesor, can I have an opinion about graves? I was responding to one sentance not the whole post(s).


Please do not skirt around with accusations. I am not doing it to you.


I have seen too many graves in my life; thousands of people have been killed or incinerated and unlucky to even have a grave. Unlucky that there's no one to grieve for them because there's no family left.


 I am not stuck in history. I am too busy by living today, praying that some idiot will not blow us all up to eternity - in a very painful way.


Exile talks about Muslim graves, you talk about Jewish graves.  Fine. The sentance I quoted does not mention either one. No I am not going back to read, I responded to what I quoted.


 

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 22, 2012 - 11:35AM #77
Merope
Posts: 10,168

Brief interjection to ask that we all use the "Quote" function when quoting from other members' posts.  That way, we will eliminate confusion as to who said what.


If you need help using the function, please feel free to email any of the hosts for assistance.


Many thanks,


Merope
Beliefnet Community Host
Middle East News & Politics

Merope | Beliefnet Community Manager
Problems? Send a message to Beliefnet_community
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 13, 2013 - 2:08PM #78
BDboy
Posts: 5,818

Jul 17, 2012 -- 11:22AM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Bdboy


Except that there are no settlers only Jews living in Israel, in their historic homeland. They live in Jewish communities in an area of land in which until the Jordanians expelled all the Jews there were many Jewish communities. 


Why is it that if I were to return to Hebron, you would call me a "settler", but you have no problem insisting that Palestinian "refugees" be allowed to live wherever they wish. Please explain the difference in your positions.


The Israelis who are living in Judea and Samaria are no more "land grabbing" than the Arabs who are living in the same area. 





>>>>>>>>>> If you move from the US and wanted to live in Palestinian area, you would be an invading settler by international laws.


However we have been talking for a while and I understand where you are coming from. In "Your world" some Jews (There are some debate about if Euro Jews are the Original Jews of Palestine/Israel or not) can leave a place 2000 or 3000 years ago and simply pushing out people who have been may look like a "Good target" (Since these are all guess work to start with!!) and push them away to another country or a camp.


I am well aware of "Next year in Jerusalem" song/prayers and I have my sympathies with Jewish history but it is difficult to endorse land grab and persecution by state of Israel.

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 13, 2013 - 3:59PM #79
Shusha
Posts: 4,627

If you move from the US and wanted to live in Palestinian area, you would be an invading settler by international laws.





BDBoy,


Is this an international law which applies only to Jews moving to Palestine?  Could you specifically point out this law to me? 


Otherwise, a person who moves from one country to another is normally called an immigrant.  Its legal.


Also indigenous persons and groups of people have rights in their homeland.


And...Israel does not require her sovereign lands to be rid of Arabs, Muslims, Palestinians or any other group.  But Palestine's governments do require this, and you support it.  So who's kicking who out?



The foreign invader argument just doesn't fly.  You are essentially using the same argument to support Arab Palestinian sovereignty that you use to deny sovereignty to the Jewish people.


Either sovereignty is based on historical ties to the land -- in which case BOTH Jews and Palestinians have claims to the land.


Or sovereignty is based on birth and immigration -- in which case BOTH Jews and Palestinians have claims to the land. 



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