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2 years ago  ::  Jul 06, 2012 - 3:11PM #21
Jasr
Posts: 11,117

Jul 6, 2012 -- 2:21PM, Armwar wrote:


fod, what does your post have to do with the topic?




Are you serious? He posted a government link showing the exact number of IRS agents requested in relation to the ACA, and what they will be doing. It was a lot fewer than 1600. 


Jul 6, 2012 -- 2:21PM, Armwar wrote:


Yes, Jasr, a quick Google will show you that 16,000 additional IRS agents are being hired specifically for Obamacare.  Look it up.




I don't have to. Fod saved me the trouble.


Jul 6, 2012 -- 2:21PM, Armwar wrote:


A lien on one's property is a type of seizure of said property.




A lien is not a seizure, though it is sometimes placed before a seizure. What does this have to do with the Affordable Care Act?


Jul 6, 2012 -- 2:21PM, Armwar wrote:


 The devil is in the details. 




Of which you have provided none.

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 06, 2012 - 3:15PM #22
Jasr
Posts: 11,117

Jul 6, 2012 -- 2:26PM, Armwar wrote:


Sooo...thanks for accepting the fact that there are 13,000 pages of governmental regulations.




Well yes...it's a pretty complicated bill. What is your point?


Jul 6, 2012 -- 2:26PM, Armwar wrote:


You all will be hearing more and more about the 16,000 IRS agents  





We already have, from Saxby Chambliss, John Ensign, Paul Ryan, Pete Sessions, Cliff Stearns, and now you.


It's still a lie.

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 06, 2012 - 3:39PM #23
Armwar
Posts: 12,019

My source is the House Ways and Means Committee report.  What do you have?


 


republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/Uploa...

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 06, 2012 - 3:40PM #24
Armwar
Posts: 12,019

oh yeah, that out-dated and misrepresented material which can't possibly even be taken seriously...

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 06, 2012 - 3:56PM #25
TENAC
Posts: 25,147

Jul 6, 2012 -- 3:11PM, Jasr wrote:


Jul 6, 2012 -- 2:21PM, Armwar wrote:


fod, what does your post have to do with the topic?




Are you serious? He posted a government link showing the exact number of IRS agents requested in relation to the ACA, and what they will be doing. It was a lot fewer than 1600. 


Jul 6, 2012 -- 2:21PM, Armwar wrote:


Yes, Jasr, a quick Google will show you that 16,000 additional IRS agents are being hired specifically for Obamacare.  Look it up.




I don't have to. Fod saved me the trouble.


Jul 6, 2012 -- 2:21PM, Armwar wrote:


A lien on one's property is a type of seizure of said property.




A lien is not a seizure, though it is sometimes placed before a seizure. What does this have to do with the Affordable Care Act?


Jul 6, 2012 -- 2:21PM, Armwar wrote:


 The devil is in the details. 




Of which you have provided none.





Jul 6, 2012 -- 1:39PM, Fodaoson wrote:


Jul 6, 2012 -- 1:08PM, Armwar wrote:


yes, 16,000 new IRS agents are being hired.  Fact.


yes, the IRS can seize , put a lien on your property without any due process.  Fact. 


What else?   I present facts, but those who don't care to believe these facts offer none of their own.   I am all, uh, eyes...showl me where my facts are incorrect.  Actually, they are not---which is what a fact is---a verifiable truth, as are the two statements of fact above.


 


 





 


 Feb. 22: The Treasury Department on Feb. 14 released the IRS budget request for fiscal year 2012 that shows the agency is seeking 1,269 full-time equivalent employees (FTEs) at a cost of $473 million to help implement the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. That includes 291 IRS agents, most of them (193) to "ensure accurate delivery of tax credits."


Congressional Budget Office. Letter to Sen. Harry Reid. 11 Mar 2010




Not that I would doubt anything to come out of Washington DC or the obama administration Innocent but according to Fod's excellent find......


These jobs are costing $372,734.44 per job.



Now if you take Gail's number 16,000 and add your number 1269,


you come out to $26,000 per job.



It seems we are at an impass. 


Now it is easy for me to believe that the govt wouldnt hesistate to spend $327K per job for obamacare, do you feel that is the case?


Or


is it more likely the number is closer to 16,000 than 1269?



Only an observation.

Any man can count the seeds in an apple....
.......but only God can count the apples in the seeds.
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 06, 2012 - 5:37PM #26
Jasr
Posts: 11,117

Jul 6, 2012 -- 3:39PM, Armwar wrote:


My source is the House Ways and Means Committee report.  What do you have?


republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/Uploa...





Wow...that is one partisan, inflamatory, and unsupported pile of crap. I can't believe my taxes paid somebody to write it.


I'll go with the notpartisan CBO, thanks.

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 06, 2012 - 6:03PM #27
Armwar
Posts: 12,019

www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-01...


 


The CBO says IRS will receive 10 billion over 10 yrs for agents to cover Obamacare.  Hey, you do the math.  It backs my claims.

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 06, 2012 - 6:11PM #28
Armwar
Posts: 12,019

The CBO predicted that costs related to the Affordable Care Act would "probably include an estimated $5 billion to $10 billion over 10 years for administrative costs of the Internal Revenue Service."  From Ezra Klein, Washington Post analyst...


 


or 1 billion a year in funds to the IRS to implement the provisions in the 13,000 pages or rules and regulations.  Hey!  divide that by 1259 or w/e you guys said!  I want THAT job~!  what a salary!!! nearly half a million a year apiece.  

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 06, 2012 - 7:26PM #29
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,132

 


 


 Feb. 22: The Treasury Department on Feb. 14 released the IRS budget request for fiscal year 2012 that shows the agency is seeking 1,269 full-time equivalent employees (FTEs) at a cost of $473 million to help implement the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. That includes 291 IRS agents, most of them (193) to "ensure accurate delivery of tax credits."


Congressional Budget Office. Letter to Sen. Harry Reid. 11 Mar 2010.


 The IRS Budget request for 2012 based on the PPACA.  So, you don’t not believe anything that comes from the Government, but often refer to it as being reality.  Wow real solid reasoning.


The only 16500 figure came from th REPUBLICAN caucus and has been withour t substance


\blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists...


This wildly inaccurate claim started as an inflated, partisan assertion that 16,500 new IRS employees might be required to administer the new law. ...


IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman testified before a hearing of the House Ways and Means Committee March 25 that the IRS won’t be auditing individuals to certify that they have obtained health insurance. ...


the bill signed into law (on page 131) specifically prohibits the IRS from using the liens and levies commonly used to collect money owed by delinquent taxpayers, and rules out any criminal penalties for individuals who refuse to pay the tax or those who don’t obtain coverage. ...

This figure originated with a report put out by Republicans on the House Ways and Means Com


 


 


 Feb. 22: The Treasury Department on Feb. 14 released the IRS budget request for fiscal year 2012 that shows the agency is seeking 1,269 full-time equivalent employees (FTEs) at a cost of $473 million to help implement the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. That includes 291 IRS agents, most of them (193) to "ensure accurate delivery of tax credits."


Congressional Budget Office. Letter to Sen. Harry Reid. 11 Mar 2010.


 The IRS Budget request for 2012 based on the PPACA.  So, you don’t not believe anything that comes from the Government, but often refer to it as being reality.  Wow real solid reasoning.


The only 16500 figure came from th REPUBLICAN caucus and has been withour t substance


\blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists...


This wildly inaccurate claim started as an inflated, partisan assertion that 16,500 new IRS employees might be required to administer the new law. ...


IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman testified before a hearing of the House Ways and Means Committee March 25 that the IRS won’t be auditing individuals to certify that they have obtained health insurance. ...


the bill signed into law (on page 131) specifically prohibits the IRS from using the liens and levies commonly used to collect money owed by delinquent taxpayers, and rules out any criminal penalties for individuals who refuse to pay the tax or those who don’t obtain coverage. ...

This figure originated with a report put out by Republicans on the House Ways and Means Committee on March 18. It said:

    GOP Analysis, March 18: IRS may need to hire as many as 16,500 additional auditors, agents and other employees.

Notice the words "may" and "as many as." This is the highest figure the GOP analysts thought they could support. Notice also the phrase "other employees," which covers everyone down to file clerks and support staff....


That scary claim of 16,500 new agents simply lacks any foundation in fact.


PolitiFact, the Pulitzer Prize winning feature in the St. Petersburg Times, came to a similar conclusion picking apart this March 21 statement by North Shore Republican U.S. Rep. Mark Kirk: 


According to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, the IRS would need to hire over 16,000 people ... to audit the American people and impose the new taxes and mandates" of the health care bill. 


mittee on March 18. It said:

    GOP Analysis, March 18: IRS may need to hire as many as 16,500 additional auditors, agents and other employees.

Notice the words "may" and "as many as." This is the highest figure the GOP analysts thought they could support. Notice also the phrase "other employees," which covers everyone down to file clerks and support staff....


That scary claim of 16,500 new agents simply lacks any foundation in fact.


PolitiFact, the Pulitzer Prize winning feature in the St. Petersburg Times, came to a similar conclusion picking apart this March 21 statement by North Shore Republican U.S. Rep. Mark Kirk: 


According to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, the IRS would need to hire over 16,000 people ... to audit the American people and impose the new taxes and mandates" of the health care bill. 


Please note


the bill signed into law (on page 131) specifically prohibits the IRS from using the liens and levies commonly used to collect money owed by delinquent taxpayers, 

“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 06, 2012 - 7:46PM #30
Jasr
Posts: 11,117

Jul 6, 2012 -- 6:11PM, Armwar wrote:


The CBO predicted that costs related to the Affordable Care Act would "probably include an estimated $5 billion to $10 billion over 10 years for administrative costs of the Internal Revenue Service."  From Ezra Klein, Washington Post analyst...


or 1 billion a year in funds to the IRS to implement the provisions in the 13,000 pages or rules and regulations.  Hey!  divide that by 1259 or w/e you guys said!  I want THAT job~!  what a salary!!! nearly half a million a year apiece.  





You are assuming that every penny of this is for salaries. "Administrative costs" covers far more than that. In any event these are just estimates, and they certainly don't even coming close to supporting the ridiculous claims in the OP. Thank you, Fod, as usual, for taking the time to counter the usual right wing stampede with real data.

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