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Switch to Forum Live View Anti-Mormon Bias Unchanged in 45 Years
2 years ago  ::  Jun 22, 2012 - 1:58PM #21
mindis1
Posts: 8,142

Jun 22, 2012 -- 12:25PM, Erey wrote:


Jun 22, 2012 -- 11:05AM, mindis1 wrote:


I would venture that Democrats’ bias against a Mormon Presidential candidate might have something to do with some of the dubious beliefs that seem to be part and parcel of the Mormon faith. Frankly, all I know about Mormonism is what I’ve learned from “South Park”--and I suspect that I am not so different from most Democrats in this. To my mind, the story begins to fall apart when Joseph Smith claimed to have found some gold tablets buried in the woods.



The only thing that is really crazy seeming about Mormonism is the time aspect . We have no problem respecting Muslims and they believe back in the 3rd century Mohammad rode a winged creature to heaven or the Catholics who believe Mary was taken whole bodied up to heaven to avoid experiencing death.  These events are slated to happen so long ago and in far away exotic places.  counter that with Mormons who claim it happened only like 100 years ago and in Missouri. 



I find all forms of supernaturalism offensive, regardless of which religion may espouse it. And it does seem that Abrahamic religions are premised on supernaturalism in a way that is alien to Eastern philosophies.


Nevertheless, there are forms of both Christianity and Islam that expressly reject supernaturalism. In contrast, I am not sure how someone could repudiate Joseph Smith’s own claims (e.g., about finding golden tablets buried in the woods), while at the same time claiming to adhere to the tenets of Mormonism--one would be calling the founder of one’s religion a liar. Neither the Christian nor the Muslim is in such an untenable position by rejecting the miracle stories in their scriptures. 


Would liberals tolerate anyone who disparaged or voted against a muslim candidate?  



Well, conservatives haven’t tolerated a Muslim Presidential candidate, either.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 22, 2012 - 2:33PM #22
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

It seems common among Westerners who can criticize Abrahamic traditions easily enough (not that they aren't an easy target) to suppose the Eastern traditions are somehow cool and hip enough to have escaped many of the same fantastical trappings.


I honestly don't think that's the case. The Buddhist world, for instance, doesn't seem to have any shortage of fantastic and parochial stories and claims. Among them, the legend that Siddhartha Gautama came out of the womb walking and talking.


That said, I concur with Mindis' point-- other religions can understand those to be symbolic or allegorical tales that in some cases were misunderstood as literal truths. For example, Muhammed's ascention is symbolic of reaching a higher state of awareness and communion with God -- not a literal, physical journey to a literal, physical heaven on a literal, physical mythical beast.


And, just as there are those in the West who insist the Adam and Eve story is literal truth, and Earth is only 6,000 years old -- there probably those in the East who are equally adamant that yes, Siddhartha did, in fact, walk and talk upon birth.


In the case of Mormonism, however, it's difficult to be dubious about Smith's claims to have found literal gold tablets -- and to somehow interpret the story as allegorical. 


That said, I still think there's no reason to be biased against Mormons -- or to hinge Romney's qualifications for President, or lack thereof, upon his religion. 

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 22, 2012 - 3:43PM #23
wohali
Posts: 10,227

Mytmouse:


"Dear Lord! Don't you know there's no room for rational thought in American politics"


Sadly, your wry observation is much too on the mark..............

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 22, 2012 - 4:07PM #24
Ironhold
Posts: 11,662

Jun 22, 2012 -- 11:07AM, mindis1 wrote:


Jun 22, 2012 -- 10:23AM, Ironhold wrote:


. . . a lot of liberals and gay-rights supporters mistakenly believe that Prop 8 was all on the church, and that the only reason why it passed was because the church used a large sum of money to ram-rod it through.



I take it that you can’t substantiate what you claim that “a lot of liberals and gay-rights supporters mistakenly believe”.




At the time all this went down, I was on a website that was 90% liberal.


Yeah - the "No" crowd was lying through their teeth the whole way through.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 22, 2012 - 4:13PM #25
Ironhold
Posts: 11,662

If anyone's serious about learning about the church, there are two websites where you can go -


www.mormon.org: this is a Q&A website for investigators; if you're lucky, you can even catch a missionary for a live chat.


www.lds.org: this is the main website for members. the entire canon of scriptures, plus all currently accepted instructional manuals and copies of the church magazines dating back to '71 can be found for free with just a little bit of looking.



South Park basically made stuff up in order to try and find an excuse to bash the church, and certain posters in this thread haven't had anything constructive to contribute to a discussion in years.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 22, 2012 - 7:27PM #26
Erey
Posts: 19,411

Jun 22, 2012 -- 1:58PM, mindis1 wrote:


 



Well, conservatives haven’t tolerated a Muslim Presidential candidate, either.





which muslim presidental candidate are you refering too?

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 22, 2012 - 7:31PM #27
Ironhold
Posts: 11,662

Jun 22, 2012 -- 7:27PM, Erey wrote:


which muslim presidental candidate are you refering too?




I think Mindis might be referring to the controversy concerning Obama.


Thing is, a lot of the controversy was actually due to the fact that Obama was educated, in part, at a madrassa in another country; the Obama administration tried to hail that as evidence Obama was properly multicultural, but a lot of people responded by noting that madrassas were often hotbeds for extremism and that since it was in a foreign country there was no way to know just what was and wasn't being taught there.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 22, 2012 - 7:36PM #28
Erey
Posts: 19,411

Jun 22, 2012 -- 7:31PM, Ironhold wrote:


Jun 22, 2012 -- 7:27PM, Erey wrote:


which muslim presidental candidate are you refering too?




I think Mindis might be referring to the controversy concerning Obama.


Thing is, a lot of the controversy was actually due to the fact that Obama was educated, in part, at a madrassa in another country; the Obama administration tried to hail that as evidence Obama was properly multicultural, but a lot of people responded by noting that madrassas were often hotbeds for extremism and that since it was in a foreign country there was no way to know just what was and wasn't being taught there.




 


I think it is one thing this idea that you are a muslim and running for office - which would be difficult to win on the national level.  But it is much more sinister to be a SECRET muslim, to be lying and saying you are one thing (a christian) but in reality you are bowing to Mecca. 


Technicaly speaking by law Obama was born a muslim if his father was a muslim.  We all know he was not raised a muslim and was raised sort of secular/multicultural.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 22, 2012 - 8:10PM #29
mecdukebec
Posts: 14,901

Jun 22, 2012 -- 7:31PM, Ironhold wrote:


Jun 22, 2012 -- 7:27PM, Erey wrote:


which muslim presidental candidate are you refering too?




I think Mindis might be referring to the controversy concerning Obama.


Thing is, a lot of the controversy was actually due to the fact that Obama was educated, in part, at a madrassa in another country; the Obama administration tried to hail that as evidence Obama was properly multicultural, but a lot of people responded by noting that madrassas were often hotbeds for extremism and that since it was in a foreign country there was no way to know just what was and wasn't being taught there.




A "madrassa" of 1960s is, somehow, in Wingoreasoning, linked to al-Qaeda in the late 1990s/2000s?  I don't know what the Limbots are having, but, it being Friday, I might take a sip. 

*******

"Wesley told the early Methodists to gain all they could and save all they could so that they could give all they could. It means that I consider my money to belong to God and I see myself as one of the hungry people who needs to get fed with God’s money. If I really have put all my trust in Jesus Christ as savior and Lord, then nothing I have is really my own anymore."
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 22, 2012 - 8:11PM #30
mecdukebec
Posts: 14,901

Jun 22, 2012 -- 4:13PM, Ironhold wrote:


If anyone's serious about learning about the church, there are two websites where you can go -


www.mormon.org: this is a Q&A website for investigators; if you're lucky, you can even catch a missionary for a live chat.


www.lds.org: this is the main website for members. the entire canon of scriptures, plus all currently accepted instructional manuals and copies of the church magazines dating back to '71 can be found for free with just a little bit of looking.



South Park basically made stuff up in order to try and find an excuse to bash the church, and certain posters in this thread haven't had anything constructive to contribute to a discussion in years.




Yet, LDS iconography presents the gods the LDS worship as having two bodies:


 


*******

"Wesley told the early Methodists to gain all they could and save all they could so that they could give all they could. It means that I consider my money to belong to God and I see myself as one of the hungry people who needs to get fed with God’s money. If I really have put all my trust in Jesus Christ as savior and Lord, then nothing I have is really my own anymore."
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