Jun 22, 2012 -- 11:15AM, mytmouse57 wrote:

Jun 21, 2012 -- 7:44PM, REteach wrote:

Jun 21, 2012 -- 6:31PM, solfeggio wrote:

Let's see: The Republican party is the Grand Ol' Party, right?  So, the Grand ol' penises are totally afraid of the vaginas.

 

Yeah.  bunch of weiners. 

I know quite a few Republican women who wouldn't agree with you.

Again, I have to ask, are they somehow less of a woman than you -- simply by the virture of being pro-life, conservative Republicans?

As a pro-life, conservative woman i've been called a woman hater, been accused of wanting to control women, and been told that i'm not smart enough to see that i'm being manipulated...all by pro-choice, female Democrats on this board. The answer to your question is that yes they see us as less of a woman.

There are Republicans out there lamenting that the Republicans these days are just acting like obstructionists. Anyone who can't tolerate the word vagina in a debate about women's health care needs to leave the debate. 

Jun 22, 2012 -- 1:27PM, Tpaine wrote:

Jun 22, 2012 -- 12:21PM, Girlchristian wrote:

As a pro-life, conservative woman i've been called a woman hater, been accused of wanting to control women, and been told that i'm not smart enough to see that i'm being manipulated...all by pro-choice, female Democrats on this board. The answer to your question is that yes they see us as less of a woman.

Personally as a pro-choice liberal I don't think the things you have been called are in the least bit accurate. Every woman should have the ability to have children if they so desire. What bothers me about some of the pro-life crowd is that they have gone overboard with their attempts to ban both abortion and contraception. In the bills that have been introduced in some state legislature they even prohibit abortion in cases of rape and incest. I think women are intelligent, responsible, and knowledgeable enough to make their own decisions without the help of the government or the clergy. In Florida a judge ruled that a 13-year-old girl could not have an abortion because she is too young and immature to make an informed medical decision. Link 1 In Brazil the mother and doctors of a 9-year-old girl (who had been impregnated by her step-father) who had twins aborted were excommunicated by Archbishop, José Cardoso Sobrinho. Link 2

Abortion is one of those subjects that can tend to spawn polarized views. And polarized views often hinge upon false depictions of those who disagree. 

Jun 22, 2012 -- 1:27PM, Tpaine wrote:

Jun 22, 2012 -- 12:21PM, Girlchristian wrote:

As a pro-life, conservative woman i've been called a woman hater, been accused of wanting to control women, and been told that i'm not smart enough to see that i'm being manipulated...all by pro-choice, female Democrats on this board. The answer to your question is that yes they see us as less of a woman.

Personally as a pro-choice liberal I don't think the things you have been called are in the least bit accurate. Every woman should have the ability to have children if they so desire. What bothers me about some of the pro-life crowd is that they have gone overboard with their attempts to ban both abortion and contraception. In the bills that have been introduced in some state legislature they even prohibit abortion in cases of rape and incest. I think women are intelligent, responsible, and knowledgeable enough to make their own decisions without the help of the government or the clergy. In Florida a judge ruled that a 13-year-old girl could not have an abortion because she is too young and immature to make an informed medical decision. Link 1 In Brazil the mother and doctors of a 9-year-old girl (who had been impregnated by her step-father) who had twins aborted were excommunicated by Archbishop, José Cardoso Sobrinho. Link 2

I agree that the Pro-life crowd can take things too far. I don't agree with some things they do and you certainly won't ever see me protesting outside an abortion clinic with pictures of aborted fetuses on signs. For instance, one of the bills in the OP is the criminialization of abortions after 20 weeks, which I agree with, but I don't agree with this particular bill because it doesn't allow an exception for threat to the woman's life or rape/incest.

I also think that the Pro-choice crowd (I used to be pro-choice) takes things too far as well. They argue against EVERY restriction on abortion as if one restriction will mean a complete ban on abortions and they accuse everyone that disagrees with them of being anti-woman (including the women that are pro-life). IMO, they're no different than the pro-gun crowd that fights against common sense restrictions because they're afraid that restrictions are a slippery slope that will lead to a ban.

I don't think a 13 year old is mature enough to make medical decisions. Most of us would say that a 13 year old shouldn't be able to get a boob job or lipo without parental consent because they're not mature enough to make that kind of decision. But, somehow, when it comes to abortion they're all of a sudden mature enough? They can't drive, but they can make the decision to take another life, one that they will remember doing for the rest of their life? Come on....

My own stance on abortion, as a woman, is that it demeans women. We demand that men take full responsibility if they get a woman pregnant---he has to pay child support and he is accused of not being smart and told 'you made the mistake of getting a woman pregnant so now you have to take care of the child.' But, we don't hold women as responsible. We make excuses for why they couldn't use protection or shouldn't have to be careful about who they sleep with and we claim it's 'equal rights.' We tell women 'you made the mistake of getting pregnant so now you get to kill the child.' We hold women to a lower standard than we do men and, as a woman, I can't agree with that.

Jun 22, 2012 -- 3:13PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

"My own stance on abortion, as a woman, is that it demeans women. We demand that men take full responsibility if they get a woman pregnant---he has to pay child support and he is accused of not being smart and told 'you made the mistake of getting a woman pregnant so now you have to take care of the child.' But, we don't hold women as responsible. We make excuses for why they couldn't use protection or shouldn't have to be careful about who they sleep with and we claim it's 'equal rights.' We tell women 'you made the mistake of getting pregnant so now you get to kill the child.' We hold women to a lower standard than we do men and, as a woman, I can't agree with that."

I can respect that take on things -- I don't think I've heard it put that way.

I think there are good points on both sides of the abortion debate, despite the sometimes loud and obnoxious voices on either extreme.

What irks me is the notion that women's equality hinges upon abortion, or that opposition of, or even objections toward abortion is tantamount to misogyny.

Not only is that unfair and inaccurate about men who might object -- again, IMO, it suggests that women who oppose or have objections against abortion are stupid, hoodwinked, weak enough to just have men tell them what to think, or are somehow "less of a woman."

Well even though i'm adamantly pro-life, it's not something I base my votes on and I don't actively fight for or vote for the repeal of Roe v Wade for two reasons, we're not ready as a country and it won't be repealed anyway. I will support commom sense restrictions on abortion just as I do on gun ownership though. I will also argue against the idea that legalized abortion is some empowerment for women or that it means equality for women because it doesn't.