| 12 months ago :: Jun 18, 2012 - 7:33PM #61 | |
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This is not about the Native Americans, but about how ruthlessly, how violent, a group of invaders calling themselves "christian" were in their extermination of those natives. These humans, who call their god "love", dehumanized an entire continent of fellow humans and hunted them down like vermin. One person here aped; "But they were violent." Damn right they were! They were fighting for their lives, their women and children, their way of life. Wouldn't you defend yourself from invaders? This isn't all in the distant pass either. It wasn't until the 1960's did they stop FORCEFULLY removing the children from their families and putting them in re-education centers where they were beaten for speaking their own language. Yeah, nice christian nation spreading the love of jesus.
Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.
I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife. |
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| 12 months ago :: Jun 18, 2012 - 8:58PM #62 | |
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Dave: "This isn't all in the distant pass either. It wasn't until the 1960's did they stop FORCEFULLY removing the children from their families and putting them in re-education centers where they were beaten for speaking their own language." Actually, the practice was ended in 1978 with Congress passing the Indian Child Welfare Act of 1978, along with the American Indian Religious Freedom Act. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Child_Welfa... Prevoius to that, it was illegal for American Indians to practice their own religions in this country, and had been for 100 years. |
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| 12 months ago :: Jun 18, 2012 - 9:15PM #63 | |
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What I was thinking about was the routine taking of children from intact families. Didn't that stop with the Navaho's in the mid 60's? Or am I mistaken/confused again?
Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.
I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife. |
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| 12 months ago :: Jun 18, 2012 - 9:22PM #64 | |
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Dave, I'm not familiar with the Navajo particularly in this matter. During the Grant administration reservations were assigned to Christian religious groups by lottery. Stories of the nuns on the Rosebud who caught the Lakota children speaking their own language would punish them by making them bite down on thick rubber bands, then strech the band out and let it smash back into the child's face. This was mild compared to some of the punishments. The program for child theft was "kill the Indian, save the child". Very Christian. I had a friend who posted on the Indian board who experienced the theft and placement into the system first hand. Steve had some real horror stories. He's free of that now............ |
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| 12 months ago :: Jun 18, 2012 - 11:17PM #65 | |
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For some reason they actually believed it was better to raised by strangers and be all messed up but christian. And they call their god "love."
Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.
I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife. |
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| 12 months ago :: Jun 19, 2012 - 12:20AM #66 | |
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Hello, Every Tribe was different. Omaha, Pawnee, the Ho-Chunk tribe of the Winnebago and some smaller bands were much different. They were more interested in joining the Gov't than fighting the Sioux, as the Sioux was there enemy. Many Indians served as guides. Not all Indians were bad. love
Good works will never produce faith, but faith will always produce good works. loveontheair
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| 12 months ago :: Jun 19, 2012 - 8:49AM #67 | |
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By the time whites were fighting Native Americans on the plains, the issue had been decided, I think. By that time, Native Americans had no options left. There were, perhaps, two turning points. The first was the War of 1812, where Native Americans organized by Tecumseh aided the British; not that they were motivated by altruism, but the British at the time wanted a Native American buffer state in the area around Illinois. Had the British won the war, Native Americans might have gotten a reasonably viable piece of land, which, backed by England, might have had a chance at survival. The second was the Trail of Tears, where tribes which had originally been persuaded to adopt western ways (including , BTW, slaveholding) in exchange for land alongside settlers found out what such promises were worth in the face of greed for land.
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| 12 months ago :: Jun 19, 2012 - 10:25AM #68 | |
You were the one who suggested that the pre-Eurpoean Natives were basically a bunch of group-hugging flower children. When you were corrected on that point, you immediately went to the other extreme, and brought up the old-school Hollywood depiction of savage "Injuns" -- as if anybody had suggested anything remotely like that. |
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| 12 months ago :: Jun 19, 2012 - 10:28AM #69 | |
Not all Whites were out to exterminate the Natives either. Many were appalled by the way they saw the Indians being treated. History is complex -- right down to the individual. For example, William F. "Buffalo Bill" Cody started out fighting Indians. But later in life, became a strong advocate for the dignity and respect of Native peoples. |
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| 12 months ago :: Jun 19, 2012 - 11:47AM #70 | |
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Loveontheair: "Not all Indians were bad." Are you saying that Indians who's interests at the time were in keeping with Anglo interests were ok, but other Indians were "bad"? Mytmouse, Bill Cody didn't start-out "fighting Indians", he started out shooting buffalo under contract for the railroads. Before that, he was in the Union Army during the Civil War, so one could say he started-out fighting Anglos. |
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