Jul 3, 2012 -- 12:46AM, rangerken wrote:

This thread was moved from the Hot Topics Zone

Considering I challenge the initial thesis, I am not surprised.

Jun 15, 2012 -- 3:45PM, wohali wrote:

Mytmouse:

"Yes, the land I live on was stolen from Native American Indian tribes, who in turn, had driven off earlier paleo-Indian people."

I have to question the accuracy of your statement here.

Indians are decendants of paleo-Indians, just as my Scottish ancestors were decended from Pictish people.

...or Irish or Breton or Norse or Angle...or some of each...

Jun 15, 2012 -- 3:45PM, wohali wrote:

Mytmouse:

"Yes, the land I live on was stolen from Native American Indian tribes, who in turn, had driven off earlier paleo-Indian people."

I have to question the accuracy of your statement here.

Indians are decendants of paleo-Indians, just as my Scottish ancestors were decended from Pictish people.

...or Irish or Breton or Norse or Angle...or some of each...

So before the Native American Indians were driven off by...illegal aliens, Native Americans stole land from other Native Americans?   

And as the best availble evidence suggest decendants from Africa.  

America may not be Christian now, but see how courts felt about it in early years of America.

Updegraph vs The Commonwealth

We will first dispose of what is considered the grand objection--the constitutionality of Christianity--for, in effect, that is the question. Christianity, general Christianity, is and always has been a part of the common law . . . not Christianity founded on any particular religious tenets; not Christianity with an established church ... but Christianity with liberty of conscience to all men.

Thus this wise legislature framed this great body of laws, for a Christian country and Christian people. This is the Christianity of the common law . . . and thus, it is irrefragably proved, that the laws and institutions of this state are built on the foundation of reverence for Christianity. . . . In this the constitution of the United States has made no alteration, nor in the great body of the laws which was an incorporation of the common-law doctrine of Christianity . . . without which no free government can long exist.

To prohibit the open, public and explicit denial of the popular religion of a country is a necessary measure to preserve the tranquillity of a government. Of this, no person in a Christian country can complain. . . . In the Supreme Court of New York it was solemnly determined, that Christianity was part of the law of the land, and that to revile the Holy Scriptures was an indictable offence. The case assumes, says Chief Justice Kent, that we are a Christian people, and the morality of the country is deeply engrafted on Christianity. The People v. Ruggles.

Peoples vs Ruggles – 1811

The people of this state, in common with the people of this country, profess the general doctrines of christianity, as the rule of their faith and practice……

and for this plain reason, that the case assumes that we are a christian people, and the morality of the country is deeply ingrafted upon christianity, and not upon the doctrines or worship of those impostors. Besides, the offence is crimen malitiae, and the imputation of malice could not be inferred from any invectives upon superstitions equally false and unknown.

Vidal vs Girards Executors

It is also said, and truly, that the Christian religion is a part of the common law of Pennsylvania.

Holy Trinity Church vs United States

The case is famous for Justice Brewer's statements that America is a "Christian nation."

These, and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation. 143 U.S. 457 (1892)^[3]

While the case was not specifically about religion, the court considered America's Christian identity to be a strong support for its conclusion. Almost half of the text of the opinion is spent demonstrating America's Christian identity, in order to show that Congress could not have intended to prohibit the employment of ministers from foreign countries.

Justice Brewer published a book in 1905, titled The United States: A Christian Nation, in which he disagreed with the interpretation of the court's decision as a statement or endorsement by the Supreme Court that the United States is officially in law a "Christian Nation":

These are just scratching the surface, any actual study of the early years of America will confirm that our foundations were Christian, unlike today.

Aug 15, 2012 -- 10:58PM, NATAS wrote:

I think that there is a difference between a nation of christians and a christian nation.  

So far as I know Jesus Christ is not mentioned in either the Declartion of Independence.   

So far as I know Jesus Christ is not mentioned in any Supreme Court decisions.  

I find this to be interesting if as some claim that the U.S. is a country that was founded on Biblical Christian ideals.     

On the Great Seal of the United States there is not a single Christian symbol all the symbols are pagan.   There is not even a reference to God.  

From what Biblical verse does E Plubius Unium come from? 

From what Biblical verse does Novus Ordum Seclorum come from?

From what Biblical verse does Annuit Oceptus   come from?  

 

In a few weeks (3rd July), a new book is coming out, 'Nonbeliever Nation,' by secular advocate David Niose, in which the author argues that the idea of America as a Christian nation is largely a myth, and that America began with secular roots.  NOT IN EVIDENCE
www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/...
And, in fact,, Niose challenges the reign of the Religious Right in America, claiming that nonbelievers are a rapidly growing group in the country,        SAD BUT TRUE
www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/12-06-13/
www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/20...
So, did America really start out as a secular country?  Are the Religious Right wrong to assume that theirs is the 'true' America?              TWO SIDES TO A STORY
I'll be interested to see what Niose has to say in his upcoming book.

The theme of this thread is that America STARTED OUT AS A SECULAR NATION. There is much evidence to the contrary as presented by David Baron's book "ORIGINAL INTENT" in which he QUOTES from just about all the State Constitutions, National Documents, personal writings of founding fathers, court cases, etc. Showing that regardless of what is being SAID the evidence shows that at the beginning the Christianity was the major influence behind how this nation was established.