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Switch to Forum Live View The Islamophobia Industry Strikes in Kansas
11 months ago  ::  Jul 10, 2012 - 8:51AM #291
TRUECHRISTIAN
Posts: 327

 


Jul 9, 2012 -- 3:31PM, Miraj wrote:

Actually, it is true because I said it.



Jul 9, 2012 -- 5:08PM, mountain_man wrote:

No, you saying something does not make it true.



If  she is, as she claims to be an expert authority on Islamic Law, then what she says regarding her area of expertise is true. 


If your car breaks down then  you would go to an automechanic because that is his area of expertise  he is an "authority" on fixing cars. 


You wouldn't go to a doctor to fix it,  because he is not an "authority" on cars.    


What the automechanic says is the problem with your car is true.  


What the doctor says is the problem is not true.  


Jul 9, 2012 -- 5:08PM, mountain_man wrote:

  


 These "courts" are religious courts, not civil courts. They have say only within the bounds of their religion.



The Fiqh Courts are BOTH "religous" AND "civil" courts. 


They must stay within the bounds of Sharia-God's Law.


Jul 9, 2012 -- 5:08PM, mountain_man wrote:


 They have no effect on anyone else.



Well that depends on what is meant be "someone else".


For example if by "someone else"  means someone who is not a Muslim it is not true. 


If a Muslim women marries an Atheist(God Forbid) man and a contract-Katb el-Kitab is signed then it does affect the "someone else-Atheist."


If a Secular Company signs a contract with an Islamic Company and "someone else-non-muslim." Then it does affect "someone else."


Jul 9, 2012 -- 5:08PM, mountain_man wrote:


They are not a threat to civil law in the USA.




That is true Sharia-Islamic-God's Law is not a threat to Secular Civil Law thanks to James Madison PBUH.  Yet! 


Neither is Sharia-Islamic-God's criminal law a threat to Secular Criminal Law.  Yet!


This is due to James Madison MJBH(May Jesus Bless Him) and the U.S. Secular Constitution. 


Jul 9, 2012 -- 4:47PM, Miraj wrote:


I can tell from your Avatar that you love both the U.S. and Israel.Undecided


My avatar does tend to draw attention.  All one has to do is ask why I chose it Wink




I like your Avatar even though I don't "know" why you choose it.   


I would like an Avatar of a crucifix instead of a Star of David because I believe Jesus was a Secularist, in that he "rendered on to Ceasar what was Ceasar's and God unto to God."


 




 

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11 months ago  ::  Jul 10, 2012 - 10:17AM #292
mountain_man
Posts: 34,150

Jul 10, 2012 -- 8:51AM, TRUECHRISTIAN wrote:

If  she is, as she claims to be an expert authority on ......


Appeal to authority, a logical fallacy. Experts can be wrong. That's the point I was trying to make. What was so hard to understand about that?


The rest of your post was nothing but your over analyzing what I said instead of your trying to understand what I said. Try listening instead of anal-yzing.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 10, 2012 - 7:13PM #293
christzen
Posts: 4,750

Jul 7, 2012 -- 12:22PM, Sigmund wrote:


Dear lord, really? You're equating wearing a head or face covering with pedophilia and human sacrifice? Pathetic.



 


Don't be stupid. The statement was simply that you cannot use religion to skirt laws. Please participate in an adult manner. 


 


 



Jul 7, 2012 -- 12:22PM, Sigmund wrote:


And your last sentance is about two very different things. As long as the courts also allow Jewish, Christian, etc. laws to be used in the same way it is very different than allowing the icons of only one religion to be displayed on public property.



 


You miss the point.Think a little. The point was that those who oppose harmless holiday displays seem to have no problem with actually allowing Islamic laws to be considered by the courts.


 


 


 


 


Jul 7, 2012 -- 12:22PM, Sigmund wrote:


I do not what it is about thank you. Islamaphobia.




 


If you think it is about dietary laws then you certainly do not understand the crux of the discussion.

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11 months ago  ::  Jul 10, 2012 - 7:27PM #294
Sigmund
Posts: 1,201

Jul 10, 2012 -- 7:13PM, christzen wrote:


Jul 7, 2012 -- 12:22PM, Sigmund wrote:


Dear lord, really? You're equating wearing a head or face covering with pedophilia and human sacrifice? Pathetic.



Don't be stupid. The statement was simply that you cannot use religion to skirt laws. Please participate in an adult manner.



Nice Ad Hominem attack. Seeing as you how you cut out my comment about reasonable accomodation, you deliberately avoided the point of my response. And equating the religious requirement to wear a veil with pedophilia and human sacrifice was an egregious display of childish scare tactics.


Jul 10, 2012 -- 7:13PM, christzen wrote:

Jul 7, 2012 -- 12:22PM, Sigmund wrote:


And your last sentance is about two very different things. As long as the courts also allow Jewish, Christian, etc. laws to be used in the same way it is very different than allowing the icons of only one religion to be displayed on public property.



You miss the point.Think a little. The point was that those who oppose harmless holiday displays seem to have no problem with actually allowing Islamic laws to be considered by the courts.



Because some people don't see a violation of of the First Amendment as harmless. I am OK with banning Sharia law in the US courts as long as Christian and Jewish courts are banned as well. You OK with that?


I'm also OK with allowing a creche on government property as long as there is a Star of David, Crescent and Stars, and a Circle and Pentacle as well. You OK with that too?


Jul 10, 2012 -- 7:13PM, christzen wrote:

Jul 7, 2012 -- 12:22PM, Sigmund wrote:


I do not what it is about thank you. Islamaphobia.



If you think it is about dietary laws then you certainly do not understand the crux of the discussion.



Where did I claim this was about dietary laws? I used that as an example of already existing religious laws in place in American life. I notice you didn't bother to refute the argument I made but instead made a strawman to knock down. Was it fun?

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11 months ago  ::  Jul 10, 2012 - 7:38PM #295
Ebon
Posts: 7,682

Jul 9, 2012 -- 4:43PM, Miraj wrote:

It's such a shame that Wikipedia is so relied on.  Part of the dumbing down of the planet . . . 



I disagree somewhat. Yes, Wiki has it's faults but it is tremendously accessable.

He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God. ~ Proverbs 14:31

Fiat justitia, ruat caelum

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11 months ago  ::  Jul 10, 2012 - 7:50PM #296
TRUECHRISTIAN
Posts: 327

 


Jul 10, 2012 -- 8:51AM, TRUECHRISTIAN wrote:

If  she is, as she claims to be an expert authority on ......



Jul 10, 2012 -- 10:17AM, mountain_man wrote:

Appeal to authority, a logical fallacy. Experts can be wrong. That's the point I was trying to make. What was so hard to understand about that?



I agree it is a logical fallacy.  I do not know of any expert authority who hasn't been wrong. 


However experts are more "likely-probably" to...speak the truth than people who are not expert. 


 


But I doubt that Miraj will agree that she is committing the logical fallacy from authority.  


I suspect that she was being...facetious when she said:


"That's what I said, so it must be true :-)


 


Jul 10, 2012 -- 10:17AM, mountain_man wrote:

    


The rest of your post was nothing but your over analyzing what I said instead of your trying to understand what I said. Try listening instead of anal-yzing.




I was just pointing out the flaws in what you said.  




 

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11 months ago  ::  Jul 10, 2012 - 8:12PM #297
mountain_man
Posts: 34,150

Jul 10, 2012 -- 7:50PM, TRUECHRISTIAN wrote:

I agree it is a logical fallacy.


 Then you should not have used it.


You did not point out any "flaws" in what I said but only pointed out your not understanding what I said.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 10, 2012 - 9:16PM #298
christzen
Posts: 4,750

Jul 10, 2012 -- 7:27PM, Sigmund wrote:


 Nice Ad Hominem attack. Seeing as you how you cut out my comment about reasonable accomodation, you deliberately avoided the point of my response. And equating the religious requirement to wear a veil with pedophilia and human sacrifice was an egregious display of childish scare tactics.



Yeah,yeah,yeah. Whine about ad homs after posting nonsense. Well then don't post nonsense.


As for avoiding "reasonable accomodation", I don't always make a habit of a sentence by sentence rebuttal. Sometimes just the main points. Religious acomodation applies to work. We are not talking about work,but enforcement of law.


And once again for the slow, the point about sex with minors ws to show that religious expression cannot override laws.Grow up.


 


 


 


Jul 10, 2012 -- 7:27PM, Sigmund wrote:


Because some people don't see a violation of of the First Amendment as harmless.



 


And yet these same people that see harm in a manger scene don't see harm in allowing Islam into the US court system. That would be my point. Thanks for helping make it.


 


 


Jul 10, 2012 -- 7:27PM, Sigmund wrote:


I am OK with banning Sharia law in the US courts as long as Christian and Jewish courts are banned as well. You OK with that?


I'm also OK with allowing a creche on government property as long as there is a Star of David, Crescent and Stars, and a Circle and Pentacle as well. You OK with that too?


 



 


Completely. I suppose you expected different by your wording. Sorry.I don't ask for or expect special treatment for any religion.


 


But please show me examples of these Christian courts.


 


 


 


Jul 10, 2012 -- 7:27PM, Sigmund wrote:


Where did I claim this was about dietary laws? I used that as an example of already existing religious laws in place in American life.



 


Then you answer your own question of when you claimed it.


 


 


Jul 10, 2012 -- 7:27PM, Sigmund wrote:


I notice you didn't bother to refute the argument I made but instead made a strawman to knock down. Was it fun?




 


You did not make any argument.You just asked a silly irrlevant question about an issue no one mentioned

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11 months ago  ::  Jul 10, 2012 - 9:51PM #299
TRUECHRISTIAN
Posts: 327

 


Jul 10, 2012 -- 7:50PM, TRUECHRISTIAN wrote:

I agree it is a logical fallacy.


 


Jul 10, 2012 -- 8:12PM, mountain_man wrote:

Then you should not have used it.



But I didn't use it.  I explained how it can be used.  I explained how Miraj could use it.  


Jul 10, 2012 -- 8:12PM, mountain_man wrote:


You did not point out any "flaws" in what I said but only pointed out your not understanding what I said.




One example: 


"


These "courts" are religious courts, not civil courts. They have say only within the bounds of their religion.


This is flawed because Figh Courts are BOTH religous AND civil courts.  


These "courts" are religious courts, not civil courts. They have say only within the bounds of their religion.


 




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11 months ago  ::  Jul 10, 2012 - 9:58PM #300
mountain_man
Posts: 34,150

Jul 10, 2012 -- 9:51PM, TRUECHRISTIAN wrote:

But I didn't use it....


You supported the use of it.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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