And still there is no discussion as to what normative Islam is and how it differs from the Martian version - of which people are quite rightly afraid. Do you know why that is? 

Erey

There may or may not be reasons for Arab/Muslims to be unhappy with the USA and or Israel (I would argue that there are none whatsoever) but that still does not excuse the doctrinal hate preached by some - although certainly not all - forms of Islam against Jews and to a lesser extent against Christians, since those doctrines evolved long before there was either a Untied States of an Israel and have their roots in the Qur'an. Actually all of the doctrines which the Martians espouse and now project as "TRUE ISLAM" predate both Israel and the United States of America. 

There are plenty of strands of Muslim thought which are neither anti-Jewish, nor anti-Christian. There are plenty of strands of Muslim thought which place limits on militancy and the use of force to expand Islam. There are plenty of strands of Islam which are not anti-Western or anti-progressive. There are plenty of strands of Muslim thought which are not antithetical to modern western civilization and which would not be seen as out of place by most Americans and Europeans. The problem is no one hears about those threads of Muslim thought because the Muslims who profess adherence to those threads of thought, by and large are not speaking up. They are certainly not speaking up here on B'Net. The closest we have here is a very nice Baha'i gentleman who tries to explain Islam to the uninformed. However, having a Baha'i explain normative Islam is not a big improvement over me doing it. (except that he is somewhat more forgiving than I)  It is very frustrating.

Howdy BDboy

Jun 14, 2012 -- 2:08PM, BDboy wrote:

 

>>>>>>>>> Sharia does not cover "Cultural practices". For example women in Saudi Arabia cannot drive a car (They can fly a plane!! but I'll leave it for another discussion). This is cultural. Because no other Muslim majority country agree to it.

 But the Sharia does "allow" for "Cultural practices".  Muslims can follow "Cultural Practices" so long as they do not violate Sharia Law-Quran.  Even if no other Muslim majority country does it.   Muslim men and women are enjoined to guard their modesty.  Forbidding Muslim women from driving alone "could" be interpretated as a method to guard modesty. 

I would bet more than a dollar that there is a lot less adultery and immodesty going on in Arabia because women can't drive cars.  

Jun 14, 2012 -- 2:08PM, BDboy wrote:

Same with "Honor killing". Which has been clearly banned by Islam. Muhammad (PBUH) was the first one who banned killing female infants (Was a common practice in Arabia around 1400 years ago). The Qur'an has verses about it.

How said it was a "common" practice? 

How "common" was it Arabia? 

Female infanticide and honor killings are not neccessarily the same thing. 

The only form of "honor killing" that the Quran  explictly forbids is female infanticide. 

Jun 14, 2012 -- 2:08PM, BDboy wrote:

Honor killing is practiced by people of many faiths in certain parts of the world. It is not part of Islam or for any God for that matter. Only stupid men with fragile ego support such idiotic practice.

But honor killing is not practiced in "certain other"  parts of the world. 

Honor killing is not equally common in all parts of the world. 

Honor killing is very uncommon in the United States. 

There are people of many faiths is the United States. 

The question is wether it is more common among some faiths than others and why.

Jun 14, 2012 -- 2:08PM, BDboy wrote:

I'll give you a better example. Muslim men are "Allowed" (Not a law rather a permission with some added responsibilities ties it it) to marry UP TO four women.

It is understood it is against law of the US. I have NOT heard anyone demanding to change this law!!

Just because you have not HEARD of anyone demanding to change this law does not mean there aren't any people who WANT to change this law. 

It is lawful under Civil Islamic Law-Sharia for MEN to marry more than one woman. 

Jun 14, 2012 -- 2:08PM, BDboy wrote:

American Muslims are not unfamilier with American laws. Those who migrated to the US understand what the law says. In fact in Muslim majority countries only 2%-4% men take the "Option" of having multiple wives, where it is 100% legal. 

And in 100% of Muslim majority countries that Allah's Divine Law allows men to marry up to four women in NONE OF THEM CAN A WOMAN MARRY MORE THAN ONE MAN.

I think to men who want to marry more than one woman are:

"Only stupid men with fragile ego support such idiotic practice."

Jun 14, 2012 -- 2:08PM, BDboy wrote:

BUT this is NOT my concern. not at all.

Just because it is not YOUR concern does not mean that it is not the concern of 2% to 45 of other Muslim men. 

Jun 14, 2012 -- 2:08PM, BDboy wrote:

I was wondering when NO major Muslim organizations (I know the big once very well) are asking for Sharia to replace any existing laws, WHY are CERTAIN non-Muslims are making such bog deal out of nothing?{/quote]

Well it could be because it would be really bad Public Relations for a major Muslim organization to ask for the Sharia to replace the U.S. Constitutuion or to replace laws banning polygamy. 

Or it could be that no major Muslim organizations know that since Muslims are a tiny minority of people in the United States, they would have as much a chance having the Allah's Divine Law passed in the United States as the U.S. Constition would replace the Sharia in Arabia or Iran. 

 

Jun 14, 2012 -- 2:08PM, BDboy wrote:

Please note, Sharia is just an excuse here. Last year it was ground zero mosque,

Now, the much debated "Ground zero mosque" opened without any problem. In fact it is opned to people of all faith honoring/show casing pluralistic community in Muslim Spain.

 Even though a significant percentage of people living in NYC did not want it built.  If I recall correctly there were even a tiny minority of Muslims who opposed it be built.

Glory! Glory! Glory! to Allah-Jesus for the US.  Constitution!

Jun 14, 2012 -- 2:08PM, BDboy wrote:

 few years ago it was Iraq war. It is a VERY disturbing trend

.

Everybody knows that the war in Iraq had nothing to do with Islam.  It was all about "certain" people , or a minority of "certain" people who wanted to steal the oil. 

It was "cultural".   Just like you like to blame the bad things that Muslims do on the "culture" and not Islam, then I will blame the "culture".

Jun 14, 2012 -- 2:08PM, BDboy wrote:

I am not all that worried about Sharia. Any fair minded person will quit worry about Sharia once they know what is it all about. But why SOME people pick up an excuse to go after Muslim Americans, I do not know......

 

I am not at all worried about the Sharia. 

But why some people pick up an excuse to go after some Muslims is because some Muslim Americans pick up an excuse to go after some Americans who are not Muslims. 

Did you hear about the Atheist in Indonesias who was put in jail because he posted on his Facebook page that Allah did not exist? 

I am sure however that it has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that  Indonesia is a Muslim majority country. 

And it certainly doesn't have anything to to with Islam! 

Jun 14, 2012 -- 1:42PM, BDboy wrote:

 

>>>>>>> I think you misunderstood. To say "Yes" or "No" to ANYTHING, you should know what it is!!

I misunderstand nothing. Kansas decided they do not want foreign laws having influence in Kansas. They do not need to study any foreign laws to decide this. All they have to do is decide they like things the way they are and that they do not want any change.What that change may be is irrelevant.

Jun 14, 2012 -- 1:42PM, BDboy wrote:

It will make your opinions more credible. :-)

It seems to upset you that some people don't want to study about Islam. I am one of them.It doesn't interest me.Sorry. And the opinion of the Kansas legislators is perfectly credible. It is based on the belief that the US legal system is fine as it is, without appeals to laws outside the US. No in depth study is needed to decide this, despite your attempts to portray these folks negatively.

Jun 14, 2012 -- 1:42PM, BDboy wrote:

>>>>>>> Still not clear, if this ain't nothin, why so many people have to vote AGAINST it?

I can see it's not clear, but I don't get why you can't grasp it. All I've said is that this law does not discriminate against Muslims because it does not treat them any different than other Americans. It simply refuses to give  them the special right (that other Americans don't have) of appealing to laws outside of the normal US judicial system based on foreign religions and cultures. What is so hard to understand about that?

Jun 15, 2012 -- 4:51PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:

And still there is no discussion as to what normative Islam is and how it differs from the Martian version - of which people are quite rightly afraid. Do you know why that is? 

Erey

There may or may not be reasons for Arab/Muslims to be unhappy with the USA and or Israel (I would argue that there are none whatsoever) but that still does not excuse the doctrinal hate preached by some - although certainly not all - forms of Islam against Jews and to a lesser extent against Christians, since those doctrines evolved long before there was either a Untied States of an Israel and have their roots in the Qur'an. Actually all of the doctrines which the Martians espouse and now project as "TRUE ISLAM" predate both Israel and the United States of America. 

There are plenty of strands of Muslim thought which are neither anti-Jewish, nor anti-Christian. There are plenty of strands of Muslim thought which place limits on militancy and the use of force to expand Islam. There are plenty of strands of Islam which are not anti-Western or anti-progressive. There are plenty of strands of Muslim thought which are not antithetical to modern western civilization and which would not be seen as out of place by most Americans and Europeans. The problem is no one hears about those threads of Muslim thought because the Muslims who profess adherence to those threads of thought, by and large are not speaking up. They are certainly not speaking up here on B'Net. The closest we have here is a very nice Baha'i gentleman who tries to explain Islam to the uninformed. However, having a Baha'i explain normative Islam is not a big improvement over me doing it. (except that he is somewhat more forgiving than I)  It is very frustrating.

       

OK, I am going to be a mind-reader and make a moderately educated guess that you really are not unhappy due to the fact that more muslims don't speak up and denounce Martians.  What concerns you is that in diolouge you feel that muslims are making excuses and rationalizations for the Martians.  Is that it?  Let me know.

For me when I see muslim people out contributing to society and being part of the mix that is about all I ask.  When I see muslim people telling their kids that it is too bad they have to live in the US with all the kaffirs or living here but being anti-western then I dislike that.  They might have a legal right to be anti-western and feed alot of doctrinal hate but I certainly don't have to consider that appropriate.    On Bnet there are a few really weird muslims who I think are unpleasant people who sort of espouse this doctrinal hate.  But in real life I see alot of muslims who are good americans and that sort of dilutes the online crazies. 

My take is one of the big events of our particular lifetimes has been the seemingly meteoric rise of radical Islam.    I believe it really started in the 80's but we probably didn't really notice untill the latter 90's.  I think there were alot of muslims then exploring this cultural fad idea if being a muslim really meant being anti-western.  So alot of them tried it on for size.  But a few years ago it has really dropped.  It is just not a very compelling world-view to hold. 

Erey

Don't quit your day job. You are a very bad mind reader.

Nothing would make me happier than Muslims distancing themselves and their religion from Martians. It would mean that the more "progressive" (in American terms) movements were finally in ascendance. This would be good news for Muslims and non-Muslims.