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Locked: The Islamophobia Industry Strikes in Kansas
2 years ago  ::  Jun 11, 2012 - 11:43AM #31
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 16,223

Estacia


Then you did not read the article he referenced.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 11, 2012 - 7:24PM #32
DotNotInOz
Posts: 6,833

Of greater concern to me is the fact that a few less than half the U.S. states have enacted similar laws. That says something very frightening about how organized and influential fringe groups are currently. I think we ought to worry more about their ability to get such laws passed than about who's paranoid about Islam.


From the OP article:  Like other similar bills in 20 states, including recently enacted laws in Arizona, Louisiana and Tennessee, the blueprint for the controversial Kansas legislation comes from a familiar and influential source: a growing right-wing network of anti-Muslim fear mongers. They are the Islamophobia industry and laws such as this are hallmark achievements in their quest to frighten the American population about a minority group they view with great suspicion and scorn.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 11, 2012 - 7:55PM #33
wohali
Posts: 10,227

Rocket, you are simply attempting to play word games.


To hate someone because of their religion, heritage, gender, skin color, etc. is irrational.


Hate stems from fear.


 

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2012 - 9:41AM #34
browbeaten
Posts: 3,200

Jun 11, 2012 -- 7:55PM, wohali wrote:


Rocket, you are simply attempting to play word games.


To hate someone because of their religion, heritage, gender, skin color, etc. is irrational.


Hate stems from fear.


 




Are you saying that nobody has a reason to fear someone else?  Are you saying that we must love and coddle those who wish us harm?  Where are you going with this?


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2 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2012 - 11:17AM #35
TRUECHRISTIAN
Posts: 1,231

 

Jun 9, 2012 -- 3:22PM, BDboy wrote:


Arabs are as semitic as Jewish people. So not only hate speech against Islam (The religion) is morally wrong, it is anti-semitic as well.



Arab Muslims are as "semitic" as Arab Jews, Arab Christians or Arab Atheists.  


Speech against the religion of Islam is not "anti-semitic" .  Look up the word in the dictionary.


Speech against Islam is anti-Islamic. Islam is not an Arab-Semitic religion.  Or at least that is what I have been told by Islamophiliacs.  It is a "world" religion, just as Christianity and Judiaism is a "world" religion.  It is my understanding that only a "tiny minority" of Muslims are "Arab". Even in the Middle East there are a couple of Muslims who are not Arabs.  Both Turks and Iranians are not "Arab". 


Hate speech against "Islam"  is NOT immoral. 


Hate speech which advocates violence or supression of human and civil rights against any human being is "immoral". 


The problem with hate speech is similar to the problem with pornagraphy.   Sometimes it is clear and sometimes it is less clear. 


Then there is the problem between where to draw the line between hate speech and free speech, between immoral and illegal.  


 For example if I were a Muslim and an American I would could  view the burning of the Quran or the portrayal of Muhammad as being anti-Islamic-immoral hate speech.  Since I am not an Arab I could not view as being "anti-semitic".  As an "American" I could view both as a free speech.


As an American I could view an Avatar that shows the Star of David imposed on the American flag as being Anti-American hate speech but it is freespeech.  


  


    


 


 


  

Jun 9, 2012 -- 3:22PM, BDboy wrote:


If someone or some people do not agree with Islam, it is perfectly fine. However if someone spread wrong information to produce fear about Islam, it is "Evil".



What is "wrong" is spreading false information about MUSLIMS. 



 

Jun 9, 2012 -- 3:22PM, BDboy wrote:


I do not know of ANY Islamic groups proposing "Sharia" law to replace current laws in the US. So why some people are so worried? A clear case of hate mongering in the name of "Free speech".


Click on the link below to read an interesting article on this topic.


Those defending US Constitution from sharia must have failed high school civics







Just because you do not know of any Muslims who are advocating the imposition of the Sharia in the U.S. does not mean there aren't any. 


Revolution: Liberation by Revelation Hizb Ut Tahrir America


atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs...


 


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hizbut_Tahrir


So if a have a "phobia" it is against these Muslims and all other Americans however many they may be.  


And what is really wrong or immoral about establishing the Sharia in the U.S.   It is after all the Divine Law of Allah given to all mankind.  Unlike the U.S. Constitution which doesn't even mention Allah the most compassionate, tolerant, and all knowing.  It must be clear even to the ignorant infidels that Law of Allah must be superior to that of mere men.  


It is my understanding that the overhelming majority of Sharia Law is compatible with the U.S. Constitution.   Those who fear the Sharia are Shariaphobic because they are as ignorant of the Sharia as they are of Islam. 


 




 

I could be wrong.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2012 - 12:13PM #36
BDboy
Posts: 5,831

Jun 12, 2012 -- 11:17AM, TRUECHRISTIAN wrote:


Just because you do not know of any Muslims who are advocating the imposition of the Sharia in the U.S. does not mean there aren't any. 


Revolution: Liberation by Revelation Hizb Ut Tahrir America


atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs...


 


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hizbut_Tahrir


So if a have a "phobia" it is against these Muslims and all other Americans however many they may be.  


And what is really wrong or immoral about establishing the Sharia in the U.S.   It is after all the Divine Law of Allah given to all mankind.  Unlike the U.S. Constitution which doesn't even mention Allah the most compassionate, tolerant, and all knowing.  It must be clear even to the ignorant infidels that Law of Allah must be superior to that of mere men.  


It is my understanding that the overhelming majority of Sharia Law is compatible with the U.S. Constitution.   Those who fear the Sharia are Shariaphobic because they are as ignorant of the Sharia as they are of Islam. 


 




 




>>>>>>>> I am aware of Hizb ul tahrir movement. As far as I know no Muslim majority country accepted their "Proposal" or they don't have any political footprint to speak of. If they cannot even get Muslims to rally around them, I think it is impractical to think Americans will support them anytime soon.


The only way to make proposal in American is via democratic system and last time I checked Americans are NOT opposed to "Democratic system".


They are as popular as Kansas militia in America. I do not know of ANY Muslim majority country where they gained any political power or even came close to it. If it was note worthy I would have mentioned it. :-)


 


Jun 12, 2012 -- 11:17AM, TRUECHRISTIAN wrote:


And what is really wrong or immoral about establishing the Sharia in the U.S.   It is after all the Divine Law of Allah given to all mankind.  Unlike the U.S. Constitution which doesn't even mention Allah the most compassionate, tolerant, and all knowing.  It must be clear even to the ignorant infidels that Law of Allah must be superior to that of mere men.  


It is my understanding that the overhelming majority of Sharia Law is compatible with the U.S. Constitution.   Those who fear the Sharia are Shariaphobic because they are as ignorant of the Sharia as they are of Islam. 




 


>>>>>>>> It is wrong becasue these words were taken out of context. Since Islam does NOT support forcing religion to non-Muslims [ Source: Al Qur'an 2:256]. Yes, this may be "News" to most of you but history will support it. There are millions of Christians living in Egypt since Biblical time but there were no mass "Forced conversion". The richest person in Egypt is a Christian.


In Europe Muslims ruled most of it for 800 years without any massive conversion movement. In India Muslims ruled that sub-continent for 1000 years and 87% of Indians are non-Muslims. Lastly the largest Muslim country in the world is Indonesia (Over 200 million Muslims) never saw a "Muslim army" on it. It was people to people contact which made it popular.


Even today Islam is the fastest growing religion in western Europe and North America. I do not think anyone would say we are forcing people to accept Islam.


Not only Sharia laws are similar to US constitution. They are also related to "Biblical laws". Since Islam, Christianity and Judaism are known as "Abrahamic faiths" to scholars of religion.


Hope this will help. Feel free to ask any questions.


Peace. :-)

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2012 - 12:32PM #37
BDboy
Posts: 5,831

Jun 11, 2012 -- 10:25AM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


BDboy


While you could have posted any number of articles on so called "Islamaphobia" you chose to post one which blames the phenomena of Jews. I know why you might have done so (you are basically insensitive, live in denial, and tend not to read your own posts), others may not and may therefore 1. come to an assumption about your opinions which you may not find acceptable and 2. believe the statements contained in the article which attribute the phenomena to Jews (something I find much more disturbing).


Iwanttamotto


You really need to bone up on your modern history.


You wrote:


Only to have facts thought of as pro-Muslim propaganda?  Here are some facts for you:


1.  None of Israel's neighbors think so highly of Israel to come together and turn it into a parking lot in reality.  Chest-thumping is not the same thing as serious physical threats.


Actually Israeli's neighbors have come together and attempted to destroy in on more than a few occasion: 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973 come immediately to mind. In addition Israel's neighbors house, arm and support a variety of military organizations whose aims are the destruction of the State of Israel including but not limited to Hamas and Hezbollah. you might recall that the immediate reaction of the Iraqi regime to the first Gulf War (occasioned by Iraq's invasion and conquest of Kuwait) was for Iraq to fire missiles into Israel.  And of course there are the daily attacks on Israel by Hamas and Hezbollah. Last I looked firing artillery and missiles into civilian areas was a serious physical threat. 


2.  A statistically insignificant amount of Muslims did damage on 9/11 that we recouped pretty quickly.  While we shouldn't underestimate enemies, it's quite clear "Die Hard" was about as deep as their thought processes got.  Yawn. 


Yes and No. Very few Muslims belonged or belong to Al Queda - the group which perpetuated the 9/11 attacks. However, Al Qaueda is not the only supposedly Muslim group which has attacked the United State nor is it the only supposedly Muslim group to attack other countries for reasons based on a particular understanding of Islam. (Attacks on Muslims by the radical groups are far more common than attacks on non-Muslims) There are quite a few terrorist groups which claim to be Muslim. Finally, there are literally millions of Muslims who ,while not engaging in the acts of the terrorist groups, support those groups through economic support, social support, theological support and/or physical support. Our friends the KSA fund schools and mosques which promote their version of Islam which is the foundation of much of the terrorist ideology. Muslims in the Arab world are inundated with information provided by those whose idea of Islam is reflected in the terrorist groups and groups aligned with the terrorist groups have gained political power throughout the nations of the Arab Spring. While it is impossible to say whether or not the version of Islam preached by the more radical elements and the terrorists has taken root in the minds of the masses, there is nevertheless a statistically significant portion of Muslims who have been exposed to the ideas of the radicals and who appear to accept those ideas. Basically, the followers of normative Islam, such as the type of Islam practiced in most American mosques, have done a really bad job at 1. educating there fellow Muslims about normative Islam and 2. educating the outside world about normative Islam and what it shares and more importantly does not share with the radicals.


I constantly find it a wonder, that I am forced by circumstances to defend normative Islam on a fairly consistent basis when I 1. am not Muslim and 2. have some rather pointed disagreements with Islam. Normative Islam should be being defended by normative Muslims. There is no "Islamaphobia" There is, however, fear of the radical elements who claim the mantel of Islam. Fearing the radical elements who claim the mantel of Islam is not phobic, it is sensible. 


3.  "Normal" Muslims probably don't shut their nutjobs up for the same reason we don't:  we're too nice, perhaps to a flaw.  We don't support nutjobs, but we sure as hell outnumber the ones being nutjobs.


Normative Muslims do not shut up their nut jobs for all sorts of reasons. Perhaps you should ask them, why they do not speak out more vociferously against the radical elements.




 


>>>>>> Rocket,


With all due respect, this is NOT a discussion about Jews. Rather than a discussion about Islamophobia in America. It is a very serious issue to me.


Since the hate mongers are getting a lot of "Air time" and rational people are not. Islam is being defined by people who do not know much about Islam!!


We had plenty of discussion about politics Islam and Judaism. I imagine will have some more discussions on it in future.


Can we have ONE little thread discussing an real problem for American Muslims for a change?


If some of the "Islam haters" happen to be Jewish, and zionists, I do not think you can blame Muslims for that!!

Maybe we can discuss why are SOME Jews are spreading hate against ALL Muslims (We are not talking about people who commit violence but 1.7 billion followers of Islam)?


Appreciate everyone's help in keeping our discussion on the topic.


 

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2012 - 12:38PM #38
wohali
Posts: 10,227

Browbeaten:


To hate someone because of their religion, heritage, gender, skin color, etc. is irrational.



Hate stems from fear.



 






"Are you saying that nobody has a reason to fear someone else?  Are you saying that we must love and coddle those who wish us harm?  Where are you going with this?"


What I said was quite clear.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2012 - 12:38PM #39
Nepenthe
Posts: 2,720

Regardless of all the posted hoopla in this thread, Americans have as much to fear from Shariah as they do 32 ounce soda drinks:  nothing at all.

Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2012 - 12:46PM #40
browbeaten
Posts: 3,200

Jun 12, 2012 -- 12:38PM, wohali wrote:


Browbeaten:


To hate someone because of their religion, heritage, gender, skin color, etc. is irrational.



Hate stems from fear.



 






"Are you saying that nobody has a reason to fear someone else?  Are you saying that we must love and coddle those who wish us harm?  Where are you going with this?"


What I said was quite clear.




What is clear is that hate, because of religion, heritage, gender, skin color, etc. is irrational, but hate does not necessarily stem from fear.   I fear the actions and behaviors of certain people.  I don't care what they look like or what they believe, until it directly affects me.  Nothing to with hate... only vigilant.

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