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Locked: The Islamophobia Industry Strikes in Kansas
2 years ago  ::  Jun 10, 2012 - 6:59AM #21
BDboy
Posts: 5,843

Jun 9, 2012 -- 5:15PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


Jun 9, 2012 -- 4:43PM, Ebon wrote:


Of course, there is Islamaphobia. There is also Judaphobia (which we usually call anti-semitism), there is Romaphobia (anti-ziganism) and so on. Essentially, it is the nature of humanity both to divide itself into groups and to favour one's ingroup (the group we are part of) and discriminate against one's outgroup (everyone else). That's a very basic part of human psychology that we cannot prevent happening but can learn to overcome (with familiarity, we learn to incorporate more types of people into our ingroup).





Maybe I'm stupid and naive, but I think -- and has pretty much always thought, we can overcome this.


 


There is no "us and them." There is only "we."




 


>>>>>>> I feel we can over this. The only problem is there are certain "Interest groups" who openly spread fear of "ISLAM". Note I am NOT talking about violent people but they spread irrational fear about ALL Muslims.


Since most people are still not familier with Islam and Muslims, it is working in some areas (For example, mid-west). The Kansas example just support than unhealthy trend.


I am sharing some information about certain media outlets distorting information about Islam to scare people.


It is so sad, it is like asking KKK officials to give a "fair and balanced opinion" about African-Americans or Jewish people!!


 


Having said that, I think we the people will figure it out in future. I hope that time is not too distant from us. :-)


Does Fox Hire Uninformed Pundits—or Does Being on Fox Make You Uninformed?



On the popular Fox News show the Five (6/6/12), co-host Eric Bolling blasted Muslim advocates who are suing the New York Police Department over its spying program targeting Muslims, saying that in the last 15 years, "Every terrorist on American soil has been a Muslim."


In fact, Muslims are responsible for a tiny fraction of terrorism in the U.S.; as a Rand study pointed out in 2010 (Extra!, 5/11), of the "83 terrorist attacks in the United States between 9/11 and the end of 2009, only three…were clearly connected with the jihadist cause."


Bolling has made a habit of broadcasting false information about terrorism in the U.S.  Last year (7/13/11), he bizarrely claimed that there hadn't been any terrorism on American soil when George W. Bush was in office. He later (7/14/11) amended that to say "in the aftermath of 9/11"–which is equally untrue (FAIR Blog, 7/15/11).


Studies have suggested a correlation between primarily relying on Fox News for your information about the world and ignorance about basic facts. Those studies do not address whether the relationship is causal—in other words, it isn't clear if watching Fox News makes one ignorant, or if less-informed people are somehow drawn to Fox News. Eric Bolling's popularity on Fox does not clear up that question.



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2 years ago  ::  Jun 10, 2012 - 1:47PM #22
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 16,223

BDboy


Rather than complaining of phantom "Islamaphobia" and blaming it on Jews (thank you very much for that, by the way) why don't you do something constructive? You could begin to educate people on what you believe Islam to be. The only way to dispel ideas based on bad information is with good information.


Neither you personally, nor the Muslim community, as whole, has done a particularly good job of teaching the non-Muslim world (or the Muslim world for that matter) the attitudes, ideas, philosphies, world views, and suggested personal and communal actions of either normative Islam or the version of Islam you support (should there be a difference).


While some of us, actually do know a great deal about Islam and the varieties of beliefs held by peoples who consider themselves Muslim, many more of us are only familiar with those we have taken to calling Martians. Why wouldn't you want people to know your views and that the Martian view is - in your view - not the proper view?


You could start doing so here.


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2 years ago  ::  Jun 10, 2012 - 4:16PM #23
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,158

Let’s call Islamaphobia  by its real name: Bigotry inspired by hatred and ignorance.

“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 10, 2012 - 4:25PM #24
mountain_man
Posts: 39,707

Jun 10, 2012 -- 4:16PM, Fodaoson wrote:

Let’s call Islamaphobia  by its real name: Bigotry inspired by hatred and ignorance.


Call it what you want, but they'll never change. Bigotry's main support is arrogance, a highly placed ego. That's part of who they are and that takes a great effort to change. Most are not up to the task. The best we can do is work around their squealings.


The laws and such being proposed by Regressive politicians do serve a purpose; hate. If those Regressives can get you to hate, and fear, a certain group then that Regressive has you under his control. The law doesn't have to be passed, or even have a chance of passing, for it to fulfill it's purpose; getting more votes for the Regressive when it comes to election time. Those under the control of those Regressives naturally, and predictably, fall in line and vote as they are told. It's a ploy that works, so they keep using it.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 11, 2012 - 7:19AM #25
BDboy
Posts: 5,843

Jun 10, 2012 -- 1:47PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


BDboy


Rather than complaining of phantom "Islamaphobia" and blaming it on Jews (thank you very much for that, by the way) why don't you do something constructive? You could begin to educate people on what you believe Islam to be. The only way to dispel ideas based on bad information is with good information.



 


>>>>>>>>> Not complaining but discussing.


Anyway but where did I blamed it on "Jews"? Before I accept your "Thanks", I need to know that first.


Discussing it here is constructive IMHO.


Jun 10, 2012 -- 1:47PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


 


While some of us, actually do know a great deal about Islam and the varieties of beliefs held by peoples who consider themselves Muslim, many more of us are only familiar with those we have taken to calling Martians. Why wouldn't you want people to know your views and that the Martian view is - in your view - not the proper view?


You could start doing so here.





>>>>>>>>>> I don't think this is a place to have introduction to Islam course but those who are interested can click on links below.


B-net Islam forum


Islam tomorrow


Islam-guide


 


Harun yahya

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 11, 2012 - 7:27AM #26
Ebon
Posts: 10,148

Jun 9, 2012 -- 5:15PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

Maybe I'm stupid and naive, but I think -- and has pretty much always thought, we can overcome this.


There is no "us and them." There is only "we."



Of course we can overcome it. As I said, the more types of people we become familiar with, the more types of people get included in our "ingroup" and so, the less we are prejudiced against them. It's easy to be scared of Muslims when the only Muslim you've ever seen is Abu Hamza or Osama bin Laden but it's a lot more difficult when your mental image of Muslims includes that nice Mr. Azeer who runs the pizza joint (this is from personal experience, Mohammed Azeer was an Iranian immigrant who ran a pizza place in my hometown and was the first Muslim guy I knew well enough to chat with). Familiarity breeds tolerance.

He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God. ~ Proverbs 14:31

Fiat justitia, ruat caelum

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 11, 2012 - 8:41AM #27
Iwantamotto
Posts: 8,280

BDboy:  Since most people are still not familier with Islam and Muslims, it is working in some areas (For example, mid-west). The Kansas example just support than unhealthy trend.


I think we should really try to build an infrastructure that encourages communication between countries.  I used to have French penpals in elementary school.  We'd probably video conference or email nowadays.


rocketjsquirell:  You could begin to educate people on what you believe Islam to be. The only way to dispel ideas based on bad information is with good information.


Only to have facts thought of as pro-Muslim propaganda?  Here are some facts for you:


1.  None of Israel's neighbors think so highly of Israel to come together and turn it into a parking lot in reality.  Chest-thumping is not the same thing as serious physical threats.


2.  A statistically insignificant amount of Muslims did damage on 9/11 that we recouped pretty quickly.  While we shouldn't underestimate enemies, it's quite clear "Die Hard" was about as deep as their thought processes got.  Yawn.


3.  "Normal" Muslims probably don't shut their nutjobs up for the same reason we don't:  we're too nice, perhaps to a flaw.  We don't support nutjobs, but we sure as hell outnumber the ones being nutjobs.


Neither you personally, nor the Muslim community, as whole, has done a particularly good job of teaching the non-Muslim world (or the Muslim world for that matter) the attitudes, ideas, philosphies, world views, and suggested personal and communal actions of either normative Islam or the version of Islam you support (should there be a difference).


One wonders how many peaceful Muslims it takes to impress you, for clearly the fact there are millions doesn't do it for you.

Knock and the door shall open.  It's not my fault if you don't like the decor.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 11, 2012 - 10:16AM #28
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Jun 10, 2012 -- 1:47PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


BDboy


Rather than complaining of phantom "Islamaphobia" and blaming it on Jews (thank you very much for that, by the way) why don't you do something constructive? You could begin to educate people on what you believe Islam to be. The only way to dispel ideas based on bad information is with good information.


Neither you personally, nor the Muslim community, as whole, has done a particularly good job of teaching the non-Muslim world (or the Muslim world for that matter) the attitudes, ideas, philosphies, world views, and suggested personal and communal actions of either normative Islam or the version of Islam you support (should there be a difference).


While some of us, actually do know a great deal about Islam and the varieties of beliefs held by peoples who consider themselves Muslim, many more of us are only familiar with those we have taken to calling Martians. Why wouldn't you want people to know your views and that the Martian view is - in your view - not the proper view?


You could start doing so here.






Squirrel:


With all due respect, your denial of Islamophobia is not much different than the the denials of Anti-Semitism I have seen on the Mid East Forum. People are hated for their religion and culture as well as their race and ethnic background.


 

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 11, 2012 - 10:25AM #29
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 16,223

BDboy


While you could have posted any number of articles on so called "Islamaphobia" you chose to post one which blames the phenomena of Jews. I know why you might have done so (you are basically insensitive, live in denial, and tend not to read your own posts), others may not and may therefore 1. come to an assumption about your opinions which you may not find acceptable and 2. believe the statements contained in the article which attribute the phenomena to Jews (something I find much more disturbing).


Iwanttamotto


You really need to bone up on your modern history.


You wrote:


Only to have facts thought of as pro-Muslim propaganda?  Here are some facts for you:


1.  None of Israel's neighbors think so highly of Israel to come together and turn it into a parking lot in reality.  Chest-thumping is not the same thing as serious physical threats.


Actually Israeli's neighbors have come together and attempted to destroy in on more than a few occasion: 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973 come immediately to mind. In addition Israel's neighbors house, arm and support a variety of military organizations whose aims are the destruction of the State of Israel including but not limited to Hamas and Hezbollah. you might recall that the immediate reaction of the Iraqi regime to the first Gulf War (occasioned by Iraq's invasion and conquest of Kuwait) was for Iraq to fire missiles into Israel.  And of course there are the daily attacks on Israel by Hamas and Hezbollah. Last I looked firing artillery and missiles into civilian areas was a serious physical threat. 


2.  A statistically insignificant amount of Muslims did damage on 9/11 that we recouped pretty quickly.  While we shouldn't underestimate enemies, it's quite clear "Die Hard" was about as deep as their thought processes got.  Yawn. 


Yes and No. Very few Muslims belonged or belong to Al Queda - the group which perpetuated the 9/11 attacks. However, Al Qaueda is not the only supposedly Muslim group which has attacked the United State nor is it the only supposedly Muslim group to attack other countries for reasons based on a particular understanding of Islam. (Attacks on Muslims by the radical groups are far more common than attacks on non-Muslims) There are quite a few terrorist groups which claim to be Muslim. Finally, there are literally millions of Muslims who ,while not engaging in the acts of the terrorist groups, support those groups through economic support, social support, theological support and/or physical support. Our friends the KSA fund schools and mosques which promote their version of Islam which is the foundation of much of the terrorist ideology. Muslims in the Arab world are inundated with information provided by those whose idea of Islam is reflected in the terrorist groups and groups aligned with the terrorist groups have gained political power throughout the nations of the Arab Spring. While it is impossible to say whether or not the version of Islam preached by the more radical elements and the terrorists has taken root in the minds of the masses, there is nevertheless a statistically significant portion of Muslims who have been exposed to the ideas of the radicals and who appear to accept those ideas. Basically, the followers of normative Islam, such as the type of Islam practiced in most American mosques, have done a really bad job at 1. educating there fellow Muslims about normative Islam and 2. educating the outside world about normative Islam and what it shares and more importantly does not share with the radicals.


I constantly find it a wonder, that I am forced by circumstances to defend normative Islam on a fairly consistent basis when I 1. am not Muslim and 2. have some rather pointed disagreements with Islam. Normative Islam should be being defended by normative Muslims. There is no "Islamaphobia" There is, however, fear of the radical elements who claim the mantel of Islam. Fearing the radical elements who claim the mantel of Islam is not phobic, it is sensible. 


3.  "Normal" Muslims probably don't shut their nutjobs up for the same reason we don't:  we're too nice, perhaps to a flaw.  We don't support nutjobs, but we sure as hell outnumber the ones being nutjobs.


Normative Muslims do not shut up their nut jobs for all sorts of reasons. Perhaps you should ask them, why they do not speak out more vociferously against the radical elements.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 11, 2012 - 10:37AM #30
Estacia
Posts: 2,209

I on not see DDboy's post insensitive. I see it more as informative. I believe if we don't talk about an important issue such as this we will never make progress.


We must come to term that there are those "scared" "nervous" "fearful" individuals of those who are Islamic.


That is an issue the indiviual must educate and work on themselves.


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