Jun 12, 2012 -- 12:32PM, BDboy wrote:

Can we have ONE little thread discussing an real problem for American Muslims for a change?

I would hope so, but as we have already seen, probably not.  Too much derailment with western interpretations of what some westerner says in in the Qur'an, with cherrypicked quotes.

Jun 12, 2012 -- 12:32PM, BDboy wrote:

If some of the "Islam haters" happen to be Jewish, and zionists, I do not think you can blame Muslims for that!!

Maybe we can discuss why are SOME Jews are spreading hate against ALL Muslims (We are not talking about people who commit violence but 1.7 billion followers of Islam)?

Appreciate everyone's help in keeping our discussion on the topic.

Americans are in a bad mood these days. Started with Reagan.  All reaction and no thought.

Jun 12, 2012 -- 12:32PM, BDboy wrote:

 Rather than a discussion about Islamophobia in America. It is a very serious issue to me.

Since the hate mongers are getting a lot of "Air time" and rational people are not. Islam is being defined by people who do not know much about Islam!!

The hate-mongers always have and always will get air time.

It is unfair, it is not balanced, and it will always be so.

In terms of damage it is disproportionate. All it takes is a handful of people to listen to these hate-mongers. The extremists will always be able to do damage disproportionate to their numbers.  A dozen and a half of extremists with boxcutters can bring down 4 airplanes and 2 skyscrapers.  One extremist with a couple of guns can wipeout an island of campers in Norway.  A couple of extremists with some ANFO and a truck can destroy a building and kill a few hundred people in Oklahoma. And so on.  In our time, in a population where 99% are good people, the other 1% can do a lot of harm.

The problem in my estimation is not so much that people are stupid or bigoted or mean (although people are all of these things).  But rather that Sharia is so misunderstood.  Sharia has a PR problem.  You can't deal with people's Islamaphobia around Sharia law in the US without also dealing with the misunderstandings toward what sharia is and is not and what people are advocating in regards to sharia law here in the US> 

pressandguide.com/articles/2012/02/13/ne...

Jun 12, 2012 -- 3:05PM, Erey wrote:

The idea of sharia anything in the US sounds outrageous, really to be avoided at all costs.  This is the reality that needs to be addressed, what does sharia mean.  Does it mean chopping off hands and honor killing your sister? 

>>>>>>>> Before you get to chose if you want it or "Avoid it", you should know NO Muslim organizations ( I know some leaders in the largest ones) even proposed it!!

This is thedisturbing part. WHY are we even discussing it if NO one (At least with any kind of membership) ever proposed it? Specifically NO ONE ever wanted to replace existing laws.

If as a Muslim, I do not eat pork (As per Sharia), it does not impact anyone but me. Every American Muslim have that much "Freedom" guranteed by the constitution. As far as any law that may impact any communities, I have not heard anyone discussing it.

Jun 12, 2012 -- 3:05PM, Erey wrote:

The fact is most americans, that probably includes a fair percentage of secular-muslim americans  really don't have a positive view of sharia.  If you ask your everyday 2nd generation muslim named Wally (instead of Walid) if they like the idea of sharia they are going to say "Hell No!"  This is not why my parents/grandparents left Pakistan or Egypt as the case might be. 

>>>>>>>> Since birth Pakistan had British common law (Like the US) as foundation of their court system. I do not know of any hand chopping in Pakistan to speak of. Same goes to Egypt. Which shows the level of ignorance about Sharia.

In fact most laws in the books are very compatible with Sharia, so most Muslims do not see any reason to replace them. Again WHY are we even discussing it while Muslims are not demanding it? It seems like a campaign to mislead people (Like the Iraq war) and blame Muslims for it.

Jun 12, 2012 -- 3:05PM, Erey wrote:

The fact that Sharia includes alot of really rather boring, humdrum rules and regulations for civil disputes really never makes it into public conciousness.  Heck, you ask a fair amount of modern  muslims in Pakistan or Egypt if they think sharia is a good idea and you will probably get a Hell No!

>>>>>>> If you ask me, I would say Sharia is NOT the major problem in Egypt or Pakistan. Rather how laws are being implimented (Without due process) is a major concern.

Most countries with Muslim majority population practice Sharia in civil matters. They do not practice Sharia for criminal matters. Even though as long you follow 'Due process" [ Which is to make sure we are blaimg the right person and giving that person a chance to defend himself/herself] it works perfectly. Saudi Arabia practice Sharia and have one of the lowest crime rates in the world!!

Jun 12, 2012 -- 3:05PM, Erey wrote:

The fact is Sharia has a bad rap, which is probably for the most part unfair, not just here in the US and not just in the Red States and truly not even just in the non-muslim world. 

>>>>>>> That and how media dramatize Sharia. Like most laws if you apply it fairly, it is good. For example, African-Americans did not get 'Fair" treatment in cort systems for the longest time, so albeit American judicial system works perfectly for most of us, it did not serve well for African-Americans in the past. Most of them are not fan of it.

All depends how laws are applied and how fair it is to all people. The noble Qur'an orders Muslims to be fair with everyone including enemies. [ Source: Al Qur'an 5:8]

Jun 12, 2012 -- 3:05PM, Erey wrote:

So how do we provide fairness?  I am unsure myself.  I certainly don't think sharia needs to be outlawed or ruled against.   What does sharia do for muslims living in the US that they can't get from normal civil law?  What is important about it here in the US? 

>>>>>>> Seems like the state most "Worried" about Sharia law are the place with very little Muslim population. So discussing it will only serve bigots as it does not even apply to the US.

Jun 12, 2012 -- 3:05PM, Erey wrote:

My understanding is that it mostly emcompasses issues around marriage and divorce here in the US.  OK so they can't make Islamic divorce/marriage decisisons without shaira (just asking).  Why not?  i am truly curious about that and would not mind a short education on the subject. 

 

We need to show the boring side of sharia instead of the sensationalist side.

 

Let's start with what it is and why it is important and go from there. 

 

>>>>>>>>> It may shock you but as per Islam marriage is a contract and women can add conditions to it as per her wishes before she marries anyone. Including initiating divorce if She is not physically satisfied (All in 1400 year old Sharia system!). But you are not likly to see that in CNN or Fox anytime soon.

As I said, all of you are welcome to DI forum to carry this discussion forward there. It would be "Proper" for me to give you more details for Sharia laws.

BUT the important point in our current discussion is WHY so many states are talking against Sharia while no Muslims are trying to impliment Sharia in the first place. Specifically NO ONE is trying to replace ANY current laws. So why is there such a great need to pass laws against Sharia? It is 21st century and do we really need to go through the cycle Irish, Itilians, Jews and afro-Americans went through before Muslims are considered "Kosher" in America?

Even right after 9-11, I did not see such hatered against Muslims. It is very disturbing trend.

Most people are not too mean, too stupid, too racist or anything else.

What most people have is a view of Islam which has been provided by a small (but not that small) group of Muslims who happen to have a particular idea about Islam which in many respects is different from that of the majority of Muslims.Since that view of Islam is antithetical to much (but not all) of the beleifs and practices of a majority of Americans (and other non-Muslims as well) and as that view of Islam calls for physical war to be waged against America etc... there is nothing phobic about being wary of that group.

I am sorry but the only "Islamophobes" I have seen are the ones who are to afraid to criticize the beliefs of the Martians and who are too afraid to stand up for their own form of Islam and its beliefs and practices and who are afraid or unwilling to explain their own view of Islam and how they may differ from that of the Martians. The biggest Islamphobe here is the author of the OP. 

Unless and until the majority of Muslims are willing to state that the Martians are not them and that the aims of the Martians are not theirs the rest of the world not only has the right but has the responsibility to be cautious. 

As I have said before, those of us who are familiar with Islam and its many varieties but are not Muslims are getting sick and tired of trying to explain to the world that the Martians are not normative Muslims when we get zippo help in this regard from normative Muslims.