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Locked: The Islamophobia Industry Strikes in Kansas
2 years ago  ::  Jun 08, 2012 - 10:56PM #11
rabello
Posts: 22,031

Secretly detaining Muslim American males without charge, trial, legal representation, notice to family, or the infamous one phone call after 9/11/01 qualified as "Islamophobia".    How much o it is anti-Arabic is anybody's guess.    The entire justification for the attacks on Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Yemen is based on Islamophobia.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 08, 2012 - 11:34PM #12
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,162

Jun 8, 2012 -- 10:56PM, rabello wrote:


Secretly detaining Muslim American males without charge, trial, legal representation, notice to family, or the infamous one phone call after 9/11/01 qualified as "Islamophobia".    How much o it is anti-Arabic is anybody's guess.    The entire justification for the attacks on Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Yemen is based on Islamophobia.





rocketjsquirell



There is no such thing as Islamaphobia.


There are  those who object to CERTAIN elements who cliam to represent Islam which elsewhere on B'net we have taken to calling "Martians" but who are



“I[seldom]make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon




The two above quoted posts did something to my computer and Ican no longer read those two posters  

“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2012 - 10:41AM #13
REteach
Posts: 15,013

I don't think it is Islamophobia. It is, at its core, phobia of anything not their particular style of Christiainity.  I suspect that they would ban Judaism, paganism, Hindus, Buddhism, etc, if they really thought they could get away with it. I am sure some woud ban either Catholicism or protestant churches if they could too, depending on their particular denomination and church.  Islam just happens to be the one that is popular to denigrate at this point in time.



I find it discouraging to see how sheeplike most Americans seem to be. We ignore real problems with major impact (probably because dealing with them might cost some giant corporation or billionaire some money) and worry about pissant stuff after being led around by the noses by talking heads who have no compunction about either flat out lying or shading the truth to the point of unrecognizability.  

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2012 - 2:13PM #14
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,790

Jun 9, 2012 -- 10:41AM, REteach wrote:


I don't think it is Islamophobia. It is, at its core, phobia of anything not their particular style of Christiainity.  I suspect that they would ban Judaism, paganism, Hindus, Buddhism, etc, if they really thought they could get away with it. I am sure some woud ban either Catholicism or protestant churches if they could too, depending on their particular denomination and church.  Islam just happens to be the one that is popular to denigrate at this point in time.


Yes, I believe this is right on target.


Jun 9, 2012 -- 10:41AM, REteach wrote:


I find it discouraging to see how sheeplike most Americans seem to be. We ignore real problems with major impact (probably because dealing with them might cost some giant corporation or billionaire some money) and worry about pissant stuff after being led around by the noses by talking heads who have no compunction about either flat out lying or shading the truth to the point of unrecognizability.  




I think about this a lot. Its true, unfortunately

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2012 - 3:22PM #15
BDboy
Posts: 6,189

Jun 8, 2012 -- 10:38PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Jun 8, 2012 -- 8:51PM, wohali wrote:


"What is interesting is that the article sited is anti-semitic, blaming the entire "Islamaphobia" crisis not on people's legitimate concerns about a small minority of Muslims on a dead Jew. Congratulations BDboy, you have done it again, but then again, you always do."


If there is no Islamophobia there how can there be anti-semitism? 





Quite simply. Islamaphobia is an unreasonable fear of Islam. There are those who fear certain Muslims the "martians" but such fear is not unreasonable. There do not seem to be any who actually fear normative Islam in the same way. They may have theological disagreements, cultural disagreements, but that is not fear.


Anti-semtisim is being anti-Jewish or hateful of Jews. There are plenty of people who do that, more that a few post on B'net.


There are people who are anti-Islam but that is not Islamaphobia.


There is a differance and it is an important differance.




 


>>>>>>>> There are SOME violent people in every faith group you can think of. Now if there are some violent Hindus killing people of another religion for just belonging to the "Wrong religion", should all of us fear ALL Hindus?


Theological disagreement is acceptable but targeting ALL Muslims (all 1.7 BILLION for being Muslim!) is plain evil. This "Devil's advocate"( David Yerushalmi) attempted to do just that.


His buddies got a lot of people worried with the "Ground zero mosque" movement. The funny part is no one EVER wanted to put any mosque on ground zero.


So I would say, when and if any Muslim (Or anyone) become violent and a danger to any community, one can stand against it. How the heck this sort of open "Hate speech" go on un challenged?


Arabs are as semitic as Jewish people. So not only hate speech against Islam (The religion) is morally wrong, it is anti-semitic as well.


 


If someone or some people do not agree with Islam, it is perfectly fine. However if someone spread wrong information to produce fear about Islam, it is "Evil".


I do not know of ANY Islamic groups proposing "Sharia" law to replace current laws in the US. So why some people are so worried? A clear case of hate mongering in the name of "Free speech".


Click on the link below to read an interesting article on this topic.


Those defending US Constitution from sharia must have failed high school civics




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2 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2012 - 3:31PM #16
BDboy
Posts: 6,189

Jun 8, 2012 -- 10:56PM, rabello wrote:


Secretly detaining Muslim American males without charge, trial, legal representation, notice to family, or the infamous one phone call after 9/11/01 qualified as "Islamophobia".    How much o it is anti-Arabic is anybody's guess.    The entire justification for the attacks on Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Yemen is based on Islamophobia.




 


>>>>>>>>> I have no problem with any arrest if certain people are planning for violence. However locking people up without any charges for being "Muslim" is a little hard to support.


Most Americans get along fine with Muslims. However for last few years certain lobby groups and certain media outlets are working hard to put Islam and Muslims in a negative light.


They are misleading people with FALSE information about American Muslims.




 

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2012 - 4:02PM #17
browbeaten
Posts: 3,232

Jun 9, 2012 -- 3:22PM, BDboy wrote:


Jun 8, 2012 -- 10:38PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Jun 8, 2012 -- 8:51PM, wohali wrote:


"What is interesting is that the article sited is anti-semitic, blaming the entire "Islamaphobia" crisis not on people's legitimate concerns about a small minority of Muslims on a dead Jew. Congratulations BDboy, you have done it again, but then again, you always do."


If there is no Islamophobia there how can there be anti-semitism? 





Quite simply. Islamaphobia is an unreasonable fear of Islam. There are those who fear certain Muslims the "martians" but such fear is not unreasonable. There do not seem to be any who actually fear normative Islam in the same way. They may have theological disagreements, cultural disagreements, but that is not fear.


Anti-semtisim is being anti-Jewish or hateful of Jews. There are plenty of people who do that, more that a few post on B'net.


There are people who are anti-Islam but that is not Islamaphobia.


There is a differance and it is an important differance.




 


>>>>>>>> There are SOME violent people in every faith group you can think of. Now if there are some violent Hindus killing people of another religion for just belonging to the "Wrong religion", should all of us fear ALL Hindus?


Theological disagreement is acceptable but targeting ALL Muslims (all 1.7 BILLION for being Muslim!) is plain evil. This "Devil's advocate"( David Yerushalmi) attempted to do just that.


You mean targetting the concept of Sharia Law.


His buddies got a lot of people worried with the "Ground zero mosque" movement. The funny part is no one EVER wanted to put any mosque on ground zero.


So I would say, when and if any Muslim (Or anyone) become violent and a danger to any community, one can stand against it. How the heck this sort of open "Hate speech" go on un challenged?


Arabs are as semitic as Jewish people. So not only hate speech against Islam (The religion) is morally wrong, it is anti-semitic as well.


Pick up a dictionary and please LEARN the meaning of antisemitism.  It is a definition, not a concept.


If someone or some people do not agree with Islam, it is perfectly fine. However if someone spread wrong information to produce fear about Islam, it is "Evil".


It is your own people who are apparently spreading fear about the "Evil" of Islam.  Those same people you keep telling us don't represent true Islam.  It would seem that we have a mutual problem.  We fear their misuse of Islam as do you.


I do not know of ANY Islamic groups proposing "Sharia" law to replace current laws in the US. So why some people are so worried? A clear case of hate mongering in the name of "Free speech"


If there is no concern with Sharia law in the US, the the legislation is just empty rhetoric that will not be put to use.





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2 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2012 - 4:43PM #18
Ebon
Posts: 10,148

Of course, there is Islamaphobia. There is also Judaphobia (which we usually call anti-semitism), there is Romaphobia (anti-ziganism) and so on. Essentially, it is the nature of humanity both to divide itself into groups and to favour one's ingroup (the group we are part of) and discriminate against one's outgroup (everyone else). That's a very basic part of human psychology that we cannot prevent happening but can learn to overcome (with familiarity, we learn to incorporate more types of people into our ingroup).

He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God. ~ Proverbs 14:31

Fiat justitia, ruat caelum

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2012 - 5:12PM #19
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 16,579


Ebon


No there is no Islamaphobia. A phobia is is a strong, irrational fear of something that poses little or no actual danger.


The Martians who associate themselves with Islam and who claim to speak for Islam actually do pose an actual danger. There is absolutely no denying that they have cause actual deaths and injuries, actual destruction of property and actual mayhem. There is also no denying that they have killed many more Muslims than non-Muslims. Because of this, Muslims should be more afraid of and against the Martians than non-Muslims, however, on these forums you will find far more normative Muslims agreeing with the Martians or explaining away their actions. I really can not explain why that is.


Since most people's knowledge of Islam is fairly limited (amazingly this also includes a whole lot of people who consider themselves to be Muslims) they associate Islam with the most visible groups who claim to represent Islam which is the Martians.  Since fear of the Martians is completely reasonable, they are not Islamaphobic.  They are misinformed as to the nature of normative Islam. That is a failure of education. I would hope that the normative Muslim groups would be attempting to correct that educational deficiency. (There are some that are actually attempting to do this and others whose message become muddled because they refuse to criticize fellow Muslims)


On the other hand, the article cited in the OP is a clear example of anti-semitism, as it attempts to blame "Islamaphobia" on Jews.  Again, this is more or less what one can expect of those who complain about "Islamaphopia" who also routinely fail to criticize the Martians or even recognize that the version of Islam represented by the Martians is not that of most of the world's Muslims and is arguably un-Islamic. 


Again, what is needed is education of both Muslims and non-Muslims as to why the Martian version of Islam is not the version people should wish to follow, and why most Muslims do not follow it.  


-------------------------------


As I always like to remind people, you can not coexist with people who want to kill you.





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2 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2012 - 5:15PM #20
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Jun 9, 2012 -- 4:43PM, Ebon wrote:


Of course, there is Islamaphobia. There is also Judaphobia (which we usually call anti-semitism), there is Romaphobia (anti-ziganism) and so on. Essentially, it is the nature of humanity both to divide itself into groups and to favour one's ingroup (the group we are part of) and discriminate against one's outgroup (everyone else). That's a very basic part of human psychology that we cannot prevent happening but can learn to overcome (with familiarity, we learn to incorporate more types of people into our ingroup).





Maybe I'm stupid and naive, but I think -- and has pretty much always thought, we can overcome this.


 


There is no "us and them." There is only "we."

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