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Switch to Forum Live View 9th Circuit Won't Rehear Its Decision Striking Down Prop 8
2 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2012 - 7:19PM #21
Thetwofish
Posts: 568

Jun 5, 2012 -- 6:58PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


Jun 5, 2012 -- 6:49PM, mainecaptain wrote:


Jun 5, 2012 -- 6:35PM, Thetwofish wrote:



For Christ's sake...MM...can you just STOP!!!  Those of us who have compassion and have no problem letting gays marry don't give a RAT'S ASS whether you think the arguments are rational, valid or just plain poppy cock.


And you have made it plain that you don't care either.  So, why do YOU care what the arguments are?


Geezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....


For somebody that doesn't care, you sure seem to like to put your two cents in.


I DO CARE...not only for my nephew, but for all the same-sex couples that love each other and want to be married just like their heterosexuals friends, colleagues and strangers.


I care...that's why I post.  Why do you if you don't care??????


Peace


<'{{><




((((The Two Fish)))))))


I care too, very much




Truth is not based on who "cares" the most. 





What "truth"?


Peace


<'{{><

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2012 - 7:23PM #22
Thetwofish
Posts: 568

Jun 5, 2012 -- 6:49PM, mainecaptain wrote:


Jun 5, 2012 -- 6:35PM, Thetwofish wrote:



For Christ's sake...MM...can you just STOP!!!  Those of us who have compassion and have no problem letting gays marry don't give a RAT'S ASS whether you think the arguments are rational, valid or just plain poppy cock.


And you have made it plain that you don't care either.  So, why do YOU care what the arguments are?


Geezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....


For somebody that doesn't care, you sure seem to like to put your two cents in.


I DO CARE...not only for my nephew, but for all the same-sex couples that love each other and want to be married just like their heterosexuals friends, colleagues and strangers.


I care...that's why I post.  Why do you if you don't care??????


Peace


<'{{><




((((The Two Fish)))))))


I care too, very much




Maine...I wish we didn't live on opposite coasts.  I believe we would be very good friends Cool


I (heart) you...


Peace


<'{{><




 

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2012 - 8:20PM #23
TPaine
Posts: 9,233

Jun 5, 2012 -- 7:13PM, Ebon wrote:


Shouldn't have been up for a vote in the first place. Will probably end up before the SCOTUS where Scalia and Thomas will utterly ignore the law and decide whatever the hell they feel like.



Most likely Scalia and Thomas along with Alito and Roberts will vote however the Christian Taliban and the Koch brothers tell them to. Ginsburg, Breyer, Sotomayor, and Kagan will affirm the 9th Circuit. The deciding vote belongs to Kennedy and he wrote the opinion in Lawrence v. Texas that invalidated sodomy laws making same-sex sexuality legal.

"It is always to be taken for granted, that those who oppose an equality of rights never mean the exclusion should take place on themselves." -- Thomas Paine: Dissertations on First Principles of Government (July 7, 1795)
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2012 - 8:23PM #24
Ebon
Posts: 10,134

Jun 5, 2012 -- 8:20PM, TPaine wrote:

Most likely Scalia and Thomas along with Alito and Roberts will vote however the Christian Taliban and the Koch brothers tell them to. Ginsburg, Breyer, Sotomayor, and Kagan will affirm the 9th Circuit. The deciding vote belongs to Kennedy and he wrote the opinion in Lawrence v. Texas that invalidated sodomy laws making same-sex sexuality legal.



I see your point. I have less of a problem with Alito and Roberts because at least they make a pretence of legal reasoning, Scalia doesn't even bother with that anymore (I expect "ObamaCare" to go down for the sam reasons). I know Kennedy was the swing vote to legalise but the very fact that he is a swing vote makes me distrust him.

He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God. ~ Proverbs 14:31

Fiat justitia, ruat caelum

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2012 - 8:47PM #25
Do_unto_others
Posts: 8,399

Jun 5, 2012 -- 8:20PM, TPaine wrote:


Jun 5, 2012 -- 7:13PM, Ebon wrote:


Shouldn't have been up for a vote in the first place. Will probably end up before the SCOTUS where Scalia and Thomas will utterly ignore the law and decide whatever the hell they feel like.



Most likely Scalia and Thomas along with Alito and Roberts will vote however the Christian Taliban and the Koch brothers tell them to. Ginsburg, Breyer, Sotomayor, and Kagan will affirm the 9th Circuit. The deciding vote belongs to Kennedy and he wrote the opinion in Lawrence v. Texas that invalidated sodomy laws making same-sex sexuality legal.





I feel as you do with one exception - surprisingly, Scalia - mainly because of what he said after Lawrence that this cleared the way for same-sex marriage since there was nothing illegal in our conduct anymore. Maybe he'll eat his own words, who knows.


And, I've expressed the following (admittedly somewhat perverse) fantasy of mine before: that Thomas will recuse himself since his own (current) marriage would have been illegal in America less than 50 years ago, and I know how bad it would make him feel to vote on somebody else's decision to marry the person they love.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2012 - 8:50PM #26
Ebon
Posts: 10,134

Jun 5, 2012 -- 8:47PM, Do_unto_others wrote:

And, I've expressed the following (admittedly somewhat perverse) fantasy of mine before: that Thomas will recuse himself since his own (current) marriage would have been illegal in America less than 50 years ago, and I know how bad it would make him feel to vote on somebody else's decision to marry the person they love.



Thomas doesn't have the personal honour or self-knowledge for that.

He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God. ~ Proverbs 14:31

Fiat justitia, ruat caelum

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2012 - 9:28PM #27
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,779

Jun 5, 2012 -- 7:23PM, Thetwofish wrote:


Jun 5, 2012 -- 6:49PM, mainecaptain wrote:


Jun 5, 2012 -- 6:35PM, Thetwofish wrote:



For Christ's sake...MM...can you just STOP!!!  Those of us who have compassion and have no problem letting gays marry don't give a RAT'S ASS whether you think the arguments are rational, valid or just plain poppy cock.


And you have made it plain that you don't care either.  So, why do YOU care what the arguments are?


Geezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....


For somebody that doesn't care, you sure seem to like to put your two cents in.


I DO CARE...not only for my nephew, but for all the same-sex couples that love each other and want to be married just like their heterosexuals friends, colleagues and strangers.


I care...that's why I post.  Why do you if you don't care??????


Peace


<'{{><




((((The Two Fish)))))))


I care too, very much




Maine...I wish we didn't live on opposite coasts.  I believe we would be very good friends Cool


I (heart) you...


Peace


<'{{><




 




Thank you so much. Yes I think we would be very good friends. Laughing

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2012 - 9:38PM #28
mountain_man
Posts: 38,806

Jun 5, 2012 -- 1:53PM, Merope wrote:

In a brief order issued this morning, the 9th US Circuit Court of Appeals refused to reconsider its decision earlier this year striking down Proposition 8....


There was no valid reason for reconsideration. I haven't read all of this thread, but I sincerely doubt that anyone has come up with a valid reason to oppose marriage equality. No one has so far.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2012 - 9:43PM #29
mountain_man
Posts: 38,806

Jun 5, 2012 -- 5:55PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

The fact that some people have failed at, disrespected or even outright abused the institution of man-woman marriage is beside the point -- and strikes me as an attempt at deflection.


No, just bringing up the fact that half of all "traditional marriages" fail. Those that want to "protect" traditional marriage need to concentrate on that instead of wrongly denying others the chance to get married. So, it seems that "traditional marriage" needs to be saved FROM heterosexuals, not for them.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 06, 2012 - 2:19PM #30
Merope
Posts: 9,366

Jun 5, 2012 -- 8:47PM, Do_unto_others wrote:


Jun 5, 2012 -- 8:20PM, TPaine wrote:


Jun 5, 2012 -- 7:13PM, Ebon wrote:


Shouldn't have been up for a vote in the first place. Will probably end up before the SCOTUS where Scalia and Thomas will utterly ignore the law and decide whatever the hell they feel like.



Most likely Scalia and Thomas along with Alito and Roberts will vote however the Christian Taliban and the Koch brothers tell them to. Ginsburg, Breyer, Sotomayor, and Kagan will affirm the 9th Circuit. The deciding vote belongs to Kennedy and he wrote the opinion in Lawrence v. Texas that invalidated sodomy laws making same-sex sexuality legal.





I feel as you do with one exception - surprisingly, Scalia - mainly because of what he said after Lawrence that this cleared the way for same-sex marriage since there was nothing illegal in our conduct anymore. Maybe he'll eat his own words, who knows.


And, I've expressed the following (admittedly somewhat perverse) fantasy of mine before: that Thomas will recuse himself since his own (current) marriage would have been illegal in America less than 50 years ago, and I know how bad it would make him feel to vote on somebody else's decision to marry the person they love.



Well, both sides in the litigation say they expect the case to reach the Supreme Court docket for the 2012-2013 term (October 2012 through June 2013).


Theodore Olson - an attorney for the couples in the case and for the advocacy group American Foundation for Equal Rights - predicts that, by next June, the Supreme Court "will vindicate the rights of gays and lesbians to marriage equality in the United States."


Charles Cooper - an attorney for Prop 8's sponsors - says he's confident the Supreme Court will take up the case.


But IMO the Supreme Court could follow the 9th Circuit's lead - which focused on the California ballot measure - and reserve the broader constitutional questions for another day.  The appeals court ruling - which was really very narrow - noted that Prop 8 (a state constitutional amendment) passed less than 6 months after the California Supreme Court ruled that existing laws against same-sex marriage violated the state constitutions's guarantee of equality.  Finding that a ban on same-sex marriage would do nothing to promote opposite-sex unions or protect children, the appeals court held that Prop 8 had withdrawn rights from a historically persecuted minority for no apparent reason except moral disapproval of homosexuality.


So on those narrow and state-specific grounds, the Supreme Court could simply deny the Prop 8 folks' petition for cert, thereby letting the ban on Prop 8 stand and letting same-sex marriages go forward in California.  That's probably the weasel way out Tongue Out  But with this Court's current composition, I'd prefer it and wouldn't think less of the Court for doing so.  I'd actually consider it a bullet dodged.


More here.

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