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2 years ago  ::  Jun 07, 2012 - 8:11PM #21
Erey
Posts: 18,690

Earlier in this thread there was discussion about violent criminals having a history of torturing small animals and it progressing from there to being one day a monster on the news that killed and tortured lots of people.


 


I can't remember the name of the book, I want to say it was one of Malcom Gladwell's books - I will remember latter.  It is a fallacy this idea that kids who torture animals grow up to be violent or that violent criminals tortured animals.  


They did a study and alot of nice, upstanding citizens admitted to hurting animals in their childhoods.  Violent criminals show no increased history of hurting animals.  A violent criminal might have hurt animals but he is no more likely than the sweet mother of three who runs a scout troop to have that history.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 07, 2012 - 8:35PM #22
wohali
Posts: 10,227

Erey, I think you have misunderstood something. Inflicting torture on animals is one of several indicators of severe psycological dysfunction, in conjunction with fascination with setting fires, extreme voyeurism, bed wetting past a "reasonable" age and other indicators.


One or even a few of these is not any sort of guarantee of violence, but taken as a whole they do present a disturbing profile.


csafd.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=sk&a...

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 08, 2012 - 3:50AM #23
Ebon
Posts: 10,148

Jun 7, 2012 -- 8:11PM, Erey wrote:

Earlier in this thread there was discussion about violent criminals having a history of torturing small animals and it progressing from there to being one day a monster on the news that killed and tortured lots of people.


 I can't remember the name of the book, I want to say it was one of Malcom Gladwell's books - I will remember latter.  It is a fallacy this idea that kids who torture animals grow up to be violent or that violent criminals tortured animals.  


They did a study and alot of nice, upstanding citizens admitted to hurting animals in their childhoods.  Violent criminals show no increased history of hurting animals.  A violent criminal might have hurt animals but he is no more likely than the sweet mother of three who runs a scout troop to have that history.



I think you've misunderstood. A history of animal abuse (post development of externalised empathy at around 8-10) doesn't necessarily mean that a kid is going to grow into a killer. It does mean that the kid probably has a few problems and therapy might be a good idea but taken by itself, it's no indicator of anything. However, a history of animal abuse in combination with several other factors combine to create a profile that rings alarm bells.


The three factors most commonly seen are animal abuse (after 8-10), bed wetting (beyond the normal age) and arson. Go a little further and you can also add in voyeurism and obsessive tendancies. Those factors show up more commonly in serial murderers than coincidence would allow but are not, in themselves, determinative. They might show up more often because of a statistical anomaly. They might be tied to some other factor. And, with good parenting, they might well amount to nothing at all. The ones who exhibit those three behaviours but get good parenting will probably grow up to be fairly normal people. The fact that most of the people we study have fairly awful childhoods means that they didn't get such parenting.

He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God. ~ Proverbs 14:31

Fiat justitia, ruat caelum

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 08, 2012 - 12:57PM #24
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,783


Jun 7, 2012 -- 8:11PM, Erey wrote:

Earlier in this thread there was discussion about violent criminals having a history of torturing small animals and it progressing from there to being one day a monster on the news that killed and tortured lots of people.


 I can't remember the name of the book, I want to say it was one of Malcom Gladwell's books - I will remember latter.  It is a fallacy this idea that kids who torture animals grow up to be violent or that violent criminals tortured animals.  


They did a study and alot of nice, upstanding citizens admitted to hurting animals in their childhoods.  Violent criminals show no increased history of hurting animals.  A violent criminal might have hurt animals but he is no more likely than the sweet mother of three who runs a scout troop to have that history.


As has been explained, you misunderstood. But why are you apparently defending animal torture? And animal torturers? Keep in mind torturing an animal is a form of violence. It is still wrong. Very wrong

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 08, 2012 - 7:00PM #25
Ed_3
Posts: 500

Jun 5, 2012 -- 4:07PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


When some people say, "I'm having a friend for dinner..."


They really mean it.



Or if they have more ethnic tastes, saying: "Let's have Chinese, Mexican, or Italian tonight" takes on a whole new meaning. Wink

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 08, 2012 - 7:27PM #26
Erey
Posts: 18,690

Jun 8, 2012 -- 12:57PM, mainecaptain wrote:



Jun 7, 2012 -- 8:11PM, Erey wrote:

Earlier in this thread there was discussion about violent criminals having a history of torturing small animals and it progressing from there to being one day a monster on the news that killed and tortured lots of people.


 I can't remember the name of the book, I want to say it was one of Malcom Gladwell's books - I will remember latter.  It is a fallacy this idea that kids who torture animals grow up to be violent or that violent criminals tortured animals.  


They did a study and alot of nice, upstanding citizens admitted to hurting animals in their childhoods.  Violent criminals show no increased history of hurting animals.  A violent criminal might have hurt animals but he is no more likely than the sweet mother of three who runs a scout troop to have that history.


As has been explained, you misunderstood. But why are you apparently defending animal torture? And animal torturers? Keep in mind torturing an animal is a form of violence. It is still wrong. Very wrong




Wow, what a crazy-ass post!  How in the hell do extrapolate this as my definding animal torture.  you obviously have  personal problems today

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2012 - 3:59PM #27
christine3
Posts: 7,114

Jun 7, 2012 -- 8:11PM, Erey wrote:


Earlier in this thread there was discussion about violent criminals having a history of torturing small animals and it progressing from there to being one day a monster on the news that killed and tortured lots of people.


 


I can't remember the name of the book, I want to say it was one of Malcom Gladwell's books - I will remember latter.  It is a fallacy this idea that kids who torture animals grow up to be violent or that violent criminals tortured animals.  


They did a study and alot of nice, upstanding citizens admitted to hurting animals in their childhoods.  Violent criminals show no increased history of hurting animals.  A violent criminal might have hurt animals but he is no more likely than the sweet mother of three who runs a scout troop to have that history.




Well, you are probably referring to my post when I mentioned animal tortures being part of serial killers' past.  In the majority of such people, I think it probably is.  About eating their victims, well, probably some do and others don't.  Each serial killer has different reasons for eating or not eating.  At some point some may say to themselves, why waste this meat?


We've had some pretty heated discussions on the animals rights boards, where vegetarians are repulsed by eating meat.  That's a stroke in the other direction, i.e., taking the animal meat to another level and not seeing a difference between eating animal meat and human meat.  Meat is meat.  Processing animals involves torture, no way around it.  We've compartmentalized what we are eating, i.e., it's just food and not a being.


Some authors have entertained us with the idea that eating animals may be like cannibalism.  For instance, in C. S. Lewis' "The Silver Chair, the protagonists (two children and a Marsh-wiggle) stay in a castle of Narnian giants, who serve them venison.  It is revealed that the venison came from a talking stag, which in Narnia is tantamount to cannibalism.  


Both C.S. Lewis and Francis of Assisi were not strict vegetarians, but taught mercy and compassion for animals.


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2 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2012 - 4:56PM #28
christine3
Posts: 7,114

Lock your doors.  On revisiting this subject (I had forgot about it for a few days), I read this website and am horrified to find out that some serial killer cannibals are released after serving their term.  We were saying that cannibalism is very rare, but after reading this, I find it perhaps as common as arson?  


sadakoreview.com/features/evil-personali...

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2012 - 5:10PM #29
Ebon
Posts: 10,148

The only cannibal that I'm aware of being released in recent years is Sagawa and it's stongly believed that some form of corruption was involved there (Sagawa's father was a wealthy and powerful businessman).Although the question must be asked: Since most cannibals are insane, what do we do with them if they're ever cured?


Cannibalism is very rare. Yes, one can find a list of people who have indulged in it but that list covers much of the last century. There are around 7 billion people on this planet so no matter how small the number who indulge in cannibalism is, you're still going to find a few examples. Arson is far more common.

He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God. ~ Proverbs 14:31

Fiat justitia, ruat caelum

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2012 - 10:47PM #30
christine3
Posts: 7,114

Gene Study Finds Cannibal Pattern: Health (New York Times)


www.nytimes.com/2003/04/11/us/gene-study...


The first sentence does not impress me. But I do wonder if people who are serial killer cannibals are experiencing an extreme genetic throwback.


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