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Switch to Forum Live View Restrictive Voting Laws Abound
2 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 2:01PM #1
Roodog
Posts: 10,168
www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/governm...

I saw this on the Frontline post on Facebook. I know we have touched down on this before but the scope of these laws and number of states involved should merit concern.

To verify the voter's identity is one thing but to disenfranchise the poor, minorities and the elderly is tyranny.
For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

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If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 3:35PM #2
TPaine
Posts: 9,339

Jun 1, 2012 -- 2:01PM, Roodog wrote:

www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/governm...

I saw this on the Frontline post on Facebook. I know we have touched down on this before but the scope of these laws and number of states involved should merit concern.

To verify the voter's identity is one thing but to disenfranchise the poor, minorities and the elderly is tyranny.



Florida is one of the worst offenders as far as suppressing the vote efforts goes. U.S. District Judge Robert Hinkle has blocked their year-old voter suppression law that places onerous reporting restriction on voter registration groups such as the League of Women Voters. Link 1


Florida Governor Rick Scott ordered his Secretary of State, Kurt Browning, to purge the voter lists. Browning, who stated that the list he was told to use to compare with the voting list was highly inaccurate and resigned instead of obeying Scott's order. However, the purge goes on under Browning's successor, Ken Detnzer, although several county elections officials are refusing to obey the order. Not surprisingly, the people purged are mostly Hispanic (58% although they make up only 13% of eligible voters), and people who usually vote Democratic or Independent. Link 2


The Department of Justice has sent a letter to Detnzer stating that the voter purge violates the Voting Rights Act, and requires that Florida defend the purge by June 6. Scott, in response to the letter says that the purge is "doing the right thing." Link 3

"It is always to be taken for granted, that those who oppose an equality of rights never mean the exclusion should take place on themselves." -- Thomas Paine: Dissertations on First Principles of Government (July 7, 1795)
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 4:45PM #3
Unworthyone
Posts: 2,743

Its real simple and so very obvious..  The more people participate in general elections, the more Democrats win.  Therefore, it is in the best interests of Republicans to make it as difficult as possible for people to vote.  They want to do away with voter registration drives, early voting, and make new requirements such as providing  I.D. at the polls when none was required before.  And when they cannot stop ordinary people from voting, they make sure minorities are as under-represented as possible.  They accomplish this through gerrymandering.

I never consider a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend.  Thomas Jefferson

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
Albert Einstein

You can get anything you want out of life if you will just help enough other people get what they want. Zig Ziglar

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/03/29/opinion/why-i-m-for-the-brady-bill.html
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 4:52PM #4
teilhard
Posts: 51,094

In the Good-Old-Days of Jim Crow it was Poll Taxes and Tests ...

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 5:47PM #5
farragut
Posts: 4,002

As a poll worker, I share with my team-mates and the entire election apparatus the responsibility to ensure that every vote is valid and, thus, every valid vote counts. Fortunately, the nature of our precinct is such that there is very little likelihood of unqualified people trying to masquerade as voters. But it does happen. Unless I or another of the team can attest to the voter's identity from personal knowledge (and after many elections in one's home precinct, there is a lot of that) we require some acceptable documentation of the voter's id. Driver's license, CC permit, SS card, other photo id, or even a credit card will do, as long as the voter's stated residence address matches the book and we see nothing to arouse suspicion of falsity. We have no interest in disenfranchising anyone, nor could we, since the team is made up of two from each party, dedicated to fairness for the body politic.  I think that some people love to try to make mountains where not even a mole-hill exists.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 8:24PM #6
TPaine
Posts: 9,339

Jun 1, 2012 -- 5:47PM, farragut wrote:


As a poll worker, I share with my team-mates and the entire election apparatus the responsibility to ensure that every vote is valid and, thus, every valid vote counts. Fortunately, the nature of our precinct is such that there is very little likelihood of unqualified people trying to masquerade as voters. But it does happen. Unless I or another of the team can attest to the voter's identity from personal knowledge (and after many elections in one's home precinct, there is a lot of that) we require some acceptable documentation of the voter's id. Driver's license, CC permit, SS card, other photo id, or even a credit card will do, as long as the voter's stated residence address matches the book and we see nothing to arouse suspicion of falsity. We have no interest in disenfranchising anyone, nor could we, since the team is made up of two from each party, dedicated to fairness for the body politic.  I think that some people love to try to make mountains where not even a mole-hill exists.



In other words you are doing your job the way it should be done. You're doing your best to make sure the person wanting to vote is qualified to do so. You're not trying to make it as difficult as possible for someone to prove their qualification. Some laws that have been passed recently in several states target students, the elderly, the poor, and minorities by making "acceptable" ID as hard as possible for them to get. An example of this is in Wisconsin where the new law required ID from the DMV, then the Governor closed many of the DMV offices in minority areas.

"It is always to be taken for granted, that those who oppose an equality of rights never mean the exclusion should take place on themselves." -- Thomas Paine: Dissertations on First Principles of Government (July 7, 1795)
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 8:32PM #7
Unworthyone
Posts: 2,743

Jun 1, 2012 -- 5:47PM, farragut wrote:


As a poll worker, I share with my team-mates and the entire election apparatus the responsibility to ensure that every vote is valid and, thus, every valid vote counts. Fortunately, the nature of our precinct is such that there is very little likelihood of unqualified people trying to masquerade as voters. But it does happen. Unless I or another of the team can attest to the voter's identity from personal knowledge (and after many elections in one's home precinct, there is a lot of that) we require some acceptable documentation of the voter's id. Driver's license, CC permit, SS card, other photo id, or even a credit card will do, as long as the voter's stated residence address matches the book and we see nothing to arouse suspicion of falsity. We have no interest in disenfranchising anyone, nor could we, since the team is made up of two from each party, dedicated to fairness for the body politic.  I think that some people love to try to make mountains where not even a mole-hill exists.




I'm not saying that people like yourself, workers on the front lines, are working to disenfranchise voters.  I'm saying the actions of people way above you, powerful politicians, are looking to influence the outcomes of elections by affecting the numbers of people who want to vote and deliberately skewing the process in their own party's favor.  It is disgraceful, IMO and anathema to what I was taught to believe is the essence of America.


In my district all that is required is a signature that matches the one on record, as confirmed by two or more poll workers.  It has never been a problem in 27 years.  We are encouraged to bring our sample ballot to the poll already filled out, as it will make it easier for the poll workers to put  us up in the correct line and expedite the voting process.

I never consider a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend.  Thomas Jefferson

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
Albert Einstein

You can get anything you want out of life if you will just help enough other people get what they want. Zig Ziglar

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/03/29/opinion/why-i-m-for-the-brady-bill.html
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 9:26PM #8
mountain_man
Posts: 39,334

Jun 1, 2012 -- 2:01PM, Roodog wrote:

....To verify the voter's identity is one thing but to disenfranchise the poor, minorities and the elderly is tyranny.


There is a concerted effort, supported by ALEC, among Republican Regressives to disenfranchise as many poor and minorities as they can. They know those groups vote mostly Democratic.


Which begs the question; if the Republican party and platform are so great, why do they have to resort to lies and dirty tricks to support it? Why can't they just tell the truth about their positions and let the people decide? Don't they support democracy?


Apparently not.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 9:32PM #9
mountain_man
Posts: 39,334

Jun 1, 2012 -- 5:47PM, farragut wrote:

As a poll worker, I share with my team-mates and the entire election apparatus the responsibility to ensure that every vote is valid and, thus, every valid vote counts.


I have been a poll worker, a precinct captain. Not once in the 10 years I was a paid poll worker did anyone that was not registered to vote tried to vote. The effect of these draconian laws is to PREVENT legitimate voters from voting. And they're doing it on purpose. How can a vote count if the person is not allowed to vote?


Fortunately, the nature of our precinct is such that there is very little likelihood of unqualified people trying to masquerade as voters. But it does happen.



Yes, it does happen; TWO people in the whole USA in the past 5 years or so have been brought up on charges of voter fraud. These laws are preventing a crime that's too rare to worry about. They are disenfranchising more people than there would be illegal votes.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 02, 2012 - 1:52PM #10
TPaine
Posts: 9,339

Jun 1, 2012 -- 9:32PM, mountain_man wrote:


Jun 1, 2012 -- 5:47PM, farragut wrote:

As a poll worker, I share with my team-mates and the entire election apparatus the responsibility to ensure that every vote is valid and, thus, every valid vote counts.


I have been a poll worker, a precinct captain. Not once in the 10 years I was a paid poll worker did anyone that was not registered to vote tried to vote. The effect of these draconian laws is to PREVENT legitimate voters from voting. And they're doing it on purpose. How can a vote count if the person is not allowed to vote?


Fortunately, the nature of our precinct is such that there is very little likelihood of unqualified people trying to masquerade as voters. But it does happen.



Yes, it does happen; TWO people in the whole USA in the past 5 years or so have been brought up on charges of voter fraud. These laws are preventing a crime that's too rare to worry about. They are disenfranchising more people than there would be illegal votes.



One of the people brought up on charges was the Republican Secretary of State of Indiana (the top election official in the state), Charlie White, who was convicted on 6 of 7 charges related to voter fraud. Link

"It is always to be taken for granted, that those who oppose an equality of rights never mean the exclusion should take place on themselves." -- Thomas Paine: Dissertations on First Principles of Government (July 7, 1795)
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