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Switch to Forum Live View Is there something in the Baptism font that causes this?
2 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 2:14AM #21
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Jun 1, 2012 -- 1:40AM, solfeggio wrote:


Why do some fundamentalist Christians hate gay people so much? 


Well, one paster thought that homophobes were reacting in fear as to how the gay community might ruin the world somehow and call down the judgment of a higher power (God) upon us all.


Of course, this sort of thinking doesn't address the issue, which is tolerance and acceptance of people who you perceive as different.


Why can't these supposed 'Christians' simply reach out a loving hand to those people whose lifestyles they don't understand and try to reach a dialogue?  Understanding comes from asking questions, not condemnation.


 


 





The Bible in general declares this behavior to be a sin, the Hebrew Scriptures most especially,the Law, outlaws it under pain of death. Tolerance  for homosexuality was likewise prohibited, the tribe of Benjamin was almost annihilated for looking the other way and refusing to hand some homosexuals and rapists over. The only people the Law was to be imposed on in that manner was Ancient Israel. Ancient Israel strictly regulated all sexual activity and a surprising amount of sexual misdeeds were punishable by death.


The Church was not supposed to be given such police powers and the judgement and punishment for sin(including homosexuality) was to be left exclusively to God. The politicization of Christianity may have been the greatest misfortune to befall the Church and the State.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 11:49AM #22
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,043

May 31, 2012 -- 11:47PM, mountain_man wrote:


May 31, 2012 -- 11:25PM, Ebon wrote:

I disagree. It's not new exactly but it's prominence is new. There have always been radical figures at the extreme fringes, where conservatism crosses over into fascism, that preached this kind of hatred. ...


Those kind of preachers are still on the extremes. They just get more news coverage now. Most Christians are just people trying to fumble through life like the rest of us.




Thank you for acknowledging this. Like Roodog, I've been to one church that spoke like these pastors do and it was a small Southern Baptist church, but I went once with my friend at her invitation and then never went again. The church I've been at for six years now spends it's time focusing on Christ's love and how we as individual Christians are supposed to act (with love and kindness, not judgment or hatred).

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 11:53AM #23
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,043

Jun 1, 2012 -- 1:40AM, solfeggio wrote:


Why do some fundamentalist Christians hate gay people so much? 


Well, one paster thought that homophobes were reacting in fear as to how the gay community might ruin the world somehow and call down the judgment of a higher power (God) upon us all.


Of course, this sort of thinking doesn't address the issue, which is tolerance and acceptance of people who you perceive as different.


Why can't these supposed 'Christians' simply reach out a loving hand to those people whose lifestyles they don't understand and try to reach a dialogue?  Understanding comes from asking questions, not condemnation.


 


 




That's what we're supposed to do and if you follow Christ's lead then that's what one would do.



 

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 12:59PM #24
TemplarS
Posts: 6,593

May 31, 2012 -- 11:47PM, mountain_man wrote:


May 31, 2012 -- 11:25PM, Ebon wrote:

I disagree. It's not new exactly but it's prominence is new. There have always been radical figures at the extreme fringes, where conservatism crosses over into fascism, that preached this kind of hatred. ...


Those kind of preachers are still on the extremes. They just get more news coverage now. Most Christians are just people trying to fumble through life like the rest of us.






The reason for this is obvious.


I do not believe this sort of preaching in certain churches is new.  What is new is that we now live in the age of the internet, Facebook, YouTube, and so on.


I suspect that in the old days (like, maybe, 10 years ago) these people would preach to their little  congregations, and it would go no further.  Now, what everyone says anyplace is all over the net and thence to the media in about three days. 


With the possible exception of Swaggart, none of the stories mentioned by D-U-O would have ever appeared in newspapers or on the TV news.  Now they are all over the internet.


These people are of course given way more attention than either their ideas or numbers warrant; but in a way this is a good thing.  As mentioned elsewhere, polls show an increasing acceptance of gays by the public in general and the young in particular; and airing the rants of these extremists if anything is going to offend the majority of decent people who are going to be the ones to bring about change. 

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 1:05PM #25
Do_unto_others
Posts: 8,382

Ebon,


Overall, your post (#20) is excellent. I have but one quibble:


Jun 1, 2012 -- 2:05AM, Ebon wrote:

 I will argue for your right to preach your faith as you would argue for mine. We will endure.





I woudl vehemently argue AGAINST any "faith" that calls for harm to or the elimination of people.


And, in  ALL of my original examples, there is a call to just that.


 

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 1:09PM #26
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Except Jimmy Swaggert was involved with a hooker back in the '80's, which is just as bad. Maybe we should refer to him as Jimmy "John" Swaggert.Tongue Out

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 1:11PM #27
Do_unto_others
Posts: 8,382

Jun 1, 2012 -- 2:14AM, Roodog wrote:

The Bible in general declares this behavior to be a sin, the Hebrew Scriptures most especially,the Law, outlaws it under pain of death.



What the Bible is referring to is NOT what we are discussing today, namely committed, loving, adult, consenting, HUMAN same-gender relationships. David's love for Jonathan ("surpassing the love of women") is the only comparable Bible story we have that comes even close - and that love/relatinship is nowhere condemned in the Scriptures we have left to us today.


Apart from that, the bible does condemn homosexual rape, homosexual lust, and homosexual temple/cult prostitution. These are NOT what we are discussing here, so your "this behavior" (replete with the "rapists" inclusion) example is invalid - and repulsive, imo.


Jun 1, 2012 -- 2:14AM, Roodog wrote:

 The only people the Law was to be imposed on in that manner was Ancient Israel.



And we do not live in "Ancient Israel". This is 21st century America we're discussing.


Jun 1, 2012 -- 2:14AM, Roodog wrote:

The Church was not supposed to be given such police powers and the judgement and punishment for sin (including homosexuality) was to be left exclusively to God. The politicization of Christianity may have been the greatest misfortune to befall the Church and the State.




Agreed, except for calling homosexuality "sin". My faith teaches otherwise.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 1:13PM #28
Do_unto_others
Posts: 8,382

Jun 1, 2012 -- 11:49AM, Girlchristian wrote:


 I've been to one church that spoke like these pastors do and it was a small Southern Baptist church, but I went once with my friend at her invitation and then never went again. The church I've been at for six years now spends it's time focusing on Christ's love and how we as individual Christians are supposed to act (with love and kindness, not judgment or hatred).





Well, BULLY for your church. Now explain why it isn't making national/international headlines. Why aren't we hearing - in no uncertain terms - from the likes of your pastor - every day, and LOUDLY against this evident, pervasive hate message???


Tell him/her to speak up, becasue WE CAN'T HEAR HIM/her. His/her voice is ABSENT.


And silence means consent.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 1:20PM #29
Do_unto_others
Posts: 8,382

Jun 1, 2012 -- 1:09PM, Roodog wrote:


Except Jimmy Swaggert was involved with a hooker back in the '80's, which is just as bad. Maybe we should refer to him as Jimmy "John" Swaggert.Tongue Out





Actually, it was TWO hookers (on separate occasions), which is why I usually refer to him as Jimmy (2 wh0res) Swaggart.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 1:20PM #30
TemplarS
Posts: 6,593

Jun 1, 2012 -- 1:13PM, Do_unto_others wrote:


Jun 1, 2012 -- 11:49AM, Girlchristian wrote:


 I've been to one church that spoke like these pastors do and it was a small Southern Baptist church, but I went once with my friend at her invitation and then never went again. The church I've been at for six years now spends it's time focusing on Christ's love and how we as individual Christians are supposed to act (with love and kindness, not judgment or hatred).





Well, BULLY for your church. Now explain why it isn't making national/international headlines. Why aren't we hearing - in no uncertain terms - from the likes of your pastor - every day, and LOUDLY against this evident, pervasive hate message???


Tell him/her to speak up, becasue WE CAN'T HEAR HIM/her. His/her voice is ABSENT.


And silence means consent.






How do you know he/she isn't?


For the same reason you don't hear that I did not mug anybody on my way to work today.  It ain't news.


This is really the same argument used against the vast majority of peaceful Muslims. Why don't they speak up against the hatred preached in certain mosques?  They do, but it doesn't make the news.

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