May 28, 2012 -- 8:45PM, fodaoson wrote:

Some comments on posts  to this point in the thread:  #5  The Vatican is sovereign and the  Vatican is  the investigating authority in this case, no sovereignty issue is raised  #1&4.  The Vatican saw it coming  or caught wind,, investigated and made an arrest. Money corrupts, power corrupts, put  $ &P together and corruption happens .

The Vatican is investigating, sure, but also has been investigated for money laundering in the past.  The world population is asking for higher moral standards and are demanding it more and more.  Instant world news exposes crime like never before.  More than ever, the Vatican and everyone else has to account for their wealth.  Everybody must be honest.  This is a good thing.  I think the world is going in the right direction.  

May 29, 2012 -- 1:01AM, christine3 wrote:

May 28, 2012 -- 8:45PM, fodaoson wrote:

Some comments on posts  to this point in the thread:  #5  The Vatican is sovereign and the  Vatican is  the investigating authority in this case, no sovereignty issue is raised  #1&4.  The Vatican saw it coming  or caught wind,, investigated and made an arrest. Money corrupts, power corrupts, put  $ &P together and corruption happens .

The Vatican is investigating, sure, but also has been investigated for money laundering in the past.  The world population is asking for higher moral standards and are demanding it more and more.  Instant world news exposes crime like never before.  More than ever, the Vatican and everyone else has to account for their wealth.  Everybody must be honest.  This is a good thing.  I think the world is going in the right direction.  

Christine 3, in post 4 you asked  question “I'm a bit confused over this.  Since the Vatican is sovereignty, does it have to comply? “  The only entity it has to comply  with is itself.”  The reporter can only ask questions and publish his “story” of alleged( according to the  citation) corruption.

May 29, 2012 -- 2:06AM, CharikIeia wrote:

Sounds like 100% cyberpunk fantasy. That's why I asked.

You delude yourself and others here, Christine.

But at least it's a comforting fantasy, not a gloom and doom one.

Well, you are exaggerating, of course.  Change is inevitable.  The United States has 1,000 nuclear weapons, Israel has 100, Iran has none.  Iran is exempliary of a country that is pushing to get nuclear weapons.  This is crazy.  We live on a beautiful planet.  There are enough nuclear weapons and nuclear generators to destroy this planet and everything on it except for a few cockroaches.  There are 3.5 million oil rigs on the planet, many in the oceans.  This is crazy.  Populations will demand we live in a safer world.  Dishonest and unscrupulous people will be the targets; they already are.  The outcome of helplessness among the billions of people who have comparatively nothing, is great despair and anger  These two rock bottom emotions make people dangerous.  It is like the water filled to the top of a cup that has only molecules to hold the water in; the world situation is that fragile.  People tend to go on with their lives as usual (what else can they do) but psychic pressure is mounting daily.  People are afraid and want to life in a safe, less hostile world.  There are so many other safe ways to have energy that are not potentially destructive.  

May 29, 2012 -- 2:35AM, Roodog wrote:

May 28, 2012 -- 8:45PM, fodaoson wrote:

Some comments on posts  to this point in the thread:  #5  The Vatican is sovereign and the  Vatican is  the investigating authority in this case, no sovereignty issue is raised  #1&4.  The Vatican saw it coming  or caught wind,, investigated and made an arrest. Money corrupts, power corrupts, put  $ &P together and corruption happens .

#12 ,13:   I was commenting that corruption at the Vatican is  nothing new; posts are not required do be “new’ just opinion based on current events  or semi current.

# 14 The “health and wealth” “gospel” preachers are demonstrating and practicing their message.  Many are  Pastors and ministers of wealthy congregations  and the congregations  see their wealth, their ministers wealth as results of  their faith. 
The less fortunate of the congregation / followers see the minister success as evidence of the validity of the message and the minister’s demonstration of his faith He is seen as practicing as he preaches. They see their own non-attainment as not yet being quite on the faith mark.  

Fodaoson,

While you have carefully explained the concept behind the Health and Wealth "Gospel" it does expose the weaknesses of materialistic theology which attempts to manipulate the Supernatural. Unbelievers would consider this sheer nonsense, believers would consider this heresy and witchcraft because the positive confession practiced by these folks amounts to attempts to practice magic. It is also humanistic in the way that it makes man and not God sovereign over the affairs of creation. (This is an in-house debate among Christians and other theists.)

The “prosperity theology” people are just another link in the American   “religion”  line and heritage.  Disagreement is why there  are 250 kinds of  Baptists, 7 kinds of Lutheran,  14 Mormons( some (call themselves Mormons others LDS), 8 churches of God, and countless Christians /Church of Christ’s [The exact number of protestant denominations and sub denominations  varies]

 The Prosperity   movement is part of American civil Religion  and attempts to justify and deify the Capitalist  money is happiness idea.  

I for one would like to read an English translation of the leaked documents. Not only for the matter of Church History but I also like a good crime novel.