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Switch to Forum Live View "Vatileaks" and the Holy See
2 years ago  ::  May 28, 2012 - 12:02AM #11
christine3
Posts: 6,710

May 27, 2012 -- 8:37PM, jane2 wrote:


Hi christine


 I fell about a month ago and the treatment has been worse than the real aftermath. I'm a tough ole bird, though.


The American Women Religious hold most of the cards and this irritates Rome no end; they are financially independent. Fifty years ago they were running big hospitals and colleges.They own substantial property in their own domaine and they tend to Gospel teaching. Many of my college professors studied in Europe; they were and are not easily intimidated.


I used the term back-benchers to describe the Curia--borrowed it from British parliamentary discussions--back-benchers tend to lack power. Rome now wants to use power to achieve its ends but the days of even ecclesiastical power in the hands of the few are gone forever. Too many of us know too much about Church history, yada, yada.


Jane





Well, I am sorry to hear that you fell and glad nothing worse happened!  You know those ads on TV, "HELP! I fell and can't get up!"  It is good to know you are up and about now.  You probably got more rest than you wanted!


  

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2 years ago  ::  May 28, 2012 - 12:30AM #12
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,139

Did not the  protestant reformation begin over a scandal?  Selling indulgences?   Pope Alexander the VI acknowledged his daughter’s( the  infamous Lucrezia  Bogia ) son as his.  The Church history is full of sex and money scandals 

“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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2 years ago  ::  May 28, 2012 - 12:48AM #13
jane2
Posts: 14,295

May 28, 2012 -- 12:30AM, Fodaoson wrote:


Did not the  protestant reformation begin over a scandal?  Selling indulgences?   Pope Alexander the VI acknowledged his daughter’s( the  infamous Lucrezia  Bogia ) son as his.  The Church history is full of sex and money scandals 




True but nothing new in the post.




 

discuss catholicism
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2 years ago  ::  May 28, 2012 - 2:40AM #14
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

May 28, 2012 -- 12:30AM, Fodaoson wrote:


Did not the  protestant reformation begin over a scandal?  Selling indulgences?   Pope Alexander the VI acknowledged his daughter’s( the  infamous Lucrezia  Bogia ) son as his.  The Church history is full of sex and money scandals 





The "health and wealth" Gospel in some Protestant circles is every bit as bad, if not worse, than the sale of indulgences in the Late Medieval Church. Maybe Protestantism itself needs to be reformed!

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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2 years ago  ::  May 28, 2012 - 4:15PM #15
christine3
Posts: 6,710

May 28, 2012 -- 2:40AM, Roodog wrote:


May 28, 2012 -- 12:30AM, Fodaoson wrote:


Did not the  protestant reformation begin over a scandal?  Selling indulgences?   Pope Alexander the VI acknowledged his daughter’s( the  infamous Lucrezia  Bogia ) son as his.  The Church history is full of sex and money scandals 





The "health and wealth" Gospel in some Protestant circles is every bit as bad, if not worse, than the sale of indulgences in the Late Medieval Church. Maybe Protestantism itself needs to be reformed!




Except for few individuals that seem to have no sexual urge whatsoever, it is unnatural for humans to stop having sex.  It's gotta come out some way, and usually finds a more deviant way when it is prevented because of all the psychic pressures involved in the celibacy.






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2 years ago  ::  May 28, 2012 - 4:49PM #16
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

news.yahoo.com/vatican-leakers-cardinals... 


The RCC is  concerned that this scandal will hurt the trust of the people for the Church.Undecided

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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2 years ago  ::  May 28, 2012 - 6:39PM #17
christine3
Posts: 6,710

May 28, 2012 -- 2:40AM, Roodog wrote:


May 28, 2012 -- 12:30AM, Fodaoson wrote:


Did not the  protestant reformation begin over a scandal?  Selling indulgences?   Pope Alexander the VI acknowledged his daughter’s( the  infamous Lucrezia  Bogia ) son as his.  The Church history is full of sex and money scandals 





The "health and wealth" Gospel in some Protestant circles is every bit as bad, if not worse, than the sale of indulgences in the Late Medieval Church. Maybe Protestantism itself needs to be reformed!




The church for a long time preached poverty.  I don't know why the clergy did that, when they were getting wealthier and wealthier off the backs of others.  The real message of Jesus was community, and we are moving towards an agrarian system.  People are not going to pay attention to the government and the Vatican anymore.  They are going to go and do their own thing and stop supporting both.  The times they are a-changing.


I do not like to see people suffering and there will be a lot of that going around.  Whatever is in the many letters and documents that were leaked and in the book is going to be like a feast for vultures.  How can the Pope stop it? He can't.  Nostradamus was right, a mortal wound to the church in the End Times Prophesies.



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2 years ago  ::  May 28, 2012 - 6:47PM #18
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,301

May 28, 2012 -- 6:39PM, christine3 wrote:


... we are moving towards an agrarian system. 



Huh? What is that supposed to mean?

tl;dr
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2 years ago  ::  May 28, 2012 - 8:36PM #19
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

May 28, 2012 -- 6:47PM, CharikIeia wrote:


May 28, 2012 -- 6:39PM, christine3 wrote:


... we are moving towards an agrarian system. 



Huh? What is that supposed to mean?





Methinks she is referring to a post industrial society once the world has burned itself out. Not unlike the Dark Ages after the Fall of Rome.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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2 years ago  ::  May 28, 2012 - 8:45PM #20
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,139

Some comments on posts  to this point in the thread:  #5  The Vatican is sovereign and the  Vatican is  the investigating authority in this case, no sovereignty issue is raised  #1&4.  The Vatican saw it coming  or caught wind,, investigated and made an arrest. Money corrupts, power corrupts, put  $ &P together and corruption happens .


#12 ,13:   I was commenting that corruption at the Vatican is  nothing new; posts are not required do be “new’ just opinion based on current events  or semi current.


# 14 The “health and wealth” “gospel” preachers are demonstrating and practicing their message.  Many are  Pastors and ministers of wealthy congregations  and the congregations  see their wealth, their ministers wealth as results of  their faith. 
The less fortunate of the congregation / followers see the minister success as evidence of the validity of the message and the minister’s demonstration of his faith He is seen as practicing as he preaches. They see their own non-attainment as not yet being quite on the faith mark.  

“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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