Post Reply
Page 3 of 47  •  Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 47 Next
Switch to Forum Live View Strong Support for Gay Marriage Now Exceeds Strong Opposition
2 years ago  ::  May 25, 2012 - 9:00AM #21
Sigmund
Posts: 1,305

May 25, 2012 -- 3:27AM, CharikIeia wrote:


May 24, 2012 -- 6:27PM, solfeggio wrote:


Because they are human beings, gay people deserve the same rights and privileges as other human beings...



This kind of reasoning is stupid.


Marriage is not a human right, getting tax breaks is not a human right.


What about property rights? Because poor people are human beings, shouldn't they have the same rights to property as rich people? Why should a person born rich be able to spend more than a person born poor?


And the disenfranchisements from being poor are MUCH MORE RELEVANT than the disenfranchisements from not being able to marry, if you would like to put things into perspective just a little bit!


Gay marriage is a luxury problem, like being able to buy a Porsche instead of being forced to just buy a BMW.




Marriage may not be a "human right" but according to the US Supreme Court, it is indeed a civil right.


Gay marriage is a "luxury problem?" I guess if you consider being able to visit your partner in the hospital, ensure their final wishes are adhered to, enter into contracts without additional pointless legal hurdles, provide for your children, and all the other benefits that hetereosexuals receive under the legal protection of marriage, "luxuries."


And comparing this to property rights? Are you kidding? Rich people don't have anymore "right" to property than poor people.

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  May 25, 2012 - 11:01AM #22
Ebon
Posts: 10,145

May 25, 2012 -- 3:27AM, CharikIeia wrote:

Marriage is not a human right



Loving v. Virginia defined marriage as a "fundemental right". And no, there is nothing so unique about same-sex marriage that they would have had to say "this includes the gays too".

He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God. ~ Proverbs 14:31

Fiat justitia, ruat caelum

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  May 25, 2012 - 11:07AM #23
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Nothing is a right by nature. A right is anything that you want to be a right and can persuade enough other people to acknowledge as one.

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  May 25, 2012 - 5:19PM #24
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,301

May 25, 2012 -- 11:01AM, Ebon wrote:


May 25, 2012 -- 3:27AM, CharikIeia wrote:

Marriage is not a human right


Loving v. Virginia defined marriage as a "fundemental right".



What in heavens is 'Loving v. Virginia', and what relevance does it have?

tl;dr
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  May 25, 2012 - 5:22PM #25
Ebon
Posts: 10,145

May 25, 2012 -- 5:19PM, CharikIeia wrote:

What in heavens is 'Loving v. Virginia', and what relevance does it have?



It was the Supreme Court decision that legalised interracial marriage throughout the USA. It's relevence is that part of it's ratio decedendi (roughly "deciding reason") was that marriage was a "fundemental right". That establishes a precedent which lower courts are obliged to follow.

He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God. ~ Proverbs 14:31

Fiat justitia, ruat caelum

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  May 25, 2012 - 5:28PM #26
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,301

Thanks, Ebon!


I can't follow the idea at all, but that's just me. I see how it can be a right to have sex with someone who also wants that, but to establish an exclusionary tax-subsidised haven, that doesn't sound like a right at all, but like an entitlement, to me... it's not a need, but a want, that is satisfied through it.

tl;dr
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  May 25, 2012 - 7:40PM #27
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,783

May 25, 2012 -- 5:28PM, CharikIeia wrote:


Thanks, Ebon!


I can't follow the idea at all, but that's just me. I see how it can be a right to have sex with someone who also wants that, but to establish an exclusionary tax-subsidised haven, that doesn't sound like a right at all, but like an entitlement, to me... it's not a need, but a want, that is satisfied through it.




I don't know what you mean by " tax-subsidised haven"

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  May 26, 2012 - 1:02PM #28
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,301

I mean the institution that comes under the label "marriage", mainecaptain ;-)

tl;dr
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  May 26, 2012 - 1:56PM #29
Ken
Posts: 33,859

May 25, 2012 -- 5:28PM, CharikIeia wrote:


Thanks, Ebon!


I can't follow the idea at all, but that's just me. I see how it can be a right to have sex with someone who also wants that, but to establish an exclusionary tax-subsidised haven, that doesn't sound like a right at all, but like an entitlement, to me... it's not a need, but a want, that is satisfied through it.



The Supreme Court of the United States has defined it as a right. That makes it a right in the United States.

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  May 26, 2012 - 2:46PM #30
karbie
Posts: 3,329

The year I got married, there was a glitch in the phone book. When you called the Marriage Bureau, you were connected to Mental Health instead. :)


The only "luxury" I can see involved is granting same-sex partners the same insurance benefits offered to married partners today.


That would eventually mean being able to draw on your spouse's Social Security and/or pensions. I imagine that one is going to be a hell of a test case.


Civil unions should have been allowed a long time ago. It's up to individual sects and churches about religious ceremonies.


When you think of all the young gays who have killed themselves to escape relentless bullying, it's one thing to say "It gets better". To have them actually witness a shift in attitudes, to be able to see that there is hope of being considered just another human being is important.


"You are letting your opinion be colored by facts again."
'When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."
these are both from my father.
Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 3 of 47  •  Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 47 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook