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Switch to Forum Live View Strong Support for Gay Marriage Now Exceeds Strong Opposition
2 years ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 8:48PM #91
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,301

May 29, 2012 -- 8:40PM, Thetwofish wrote:


What would you tell your son or daughter if they came to you and told you they were in love and wanted to get married.



"Enjoy, but please get sober soon again, son! And keep in mind that you need to make it work, a contract with government won't really help you!"

tl;dr
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2 years ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 8:52PM #92
Thetwofish
Posts: 581

May 29, 2012 -- 8:48PM, CharikIeia wrote:


May 29, 2012 -- 8:40PM, Thetwofish wrote:


What would you tell your son or daughter if they came to you and told you they were in love and wanted to get married.



"Enjoy, but please get sober soon again, son! And keep in mind that you need to make it work, a contract with government won't really help you!"





Well, I wasn't really asking you.  But, since you decided to provide your response, I will say that it's not that bad.  I, too, after having been married twice am not a fan of the institution.  But just because I don't want to do it again, I wouldn't steer my kids or anyone else away from it if that's what they wanted.


To each his own...my Mama always said.


Peace


<'{{><

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2 years ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 9:19PM #93
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

May 29, 2012 -- 8:33PM, Thetwofish wrote:


May 29, 2012 -- 6:53PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


May 29, 2012 -- 6:48PM, Thetwofish wrote:


mighty:


Wanting is a sufficent reason for asking. 



Not for getting. 



In order to get, the request must be justified. 



Harm at that point is irrelevant. If you want something, and ask for it, you have to justify why you should get it. Or, in this case, are entitled to it. 



"I want it, and it won't hurt anybody if I get it" does not represent sound justification for entitlement.


Please provide ONE valid argument as to why those that want it should not have it.


I agree with Ken, the side keeping them out need to give a VALID reason why.


Religious/moral arguemnts do not count as this is a LEGAL issue governed by the laws of this land.  And, last I heard, the churches do NOT have a hand in that.


Peace


<'{{><




You can't just "want" something, and expect an entitlement to it.


You are correct, that in terms of pure legal concepts, gay marriage will probably win out.


However, if this had been a matter of rational reasoning of values, the burden would have been on the side making the request.


The side resistant to the suggeted change would have had to ask only three things:


1: Please provide justification for your request.


2: Please provide arguments for why having a sexually pleasing marriage partner is a basic human right.


3: Please provide a rational explaination for how homosexuality is objectively equal to heterosexuality.






1:  There is no valid reason to NOT allow homosexuals to get married.  None...whatsoever.


2: It's in the constitution.  That whole pursuit of happiness deal, ya know.


3: I already have.  They form relationships just like heterosexuals do.  The only thing they CAN'T do (in the eyes of the fed gov) is get married.  And, no they can't have babies...but then neither do a LOT of heterosexuals by either choice or biology.


Now, please provide a VALID reason they should not be allowed to enter into a MARRIAGE.


Peace


<'{{><




You're answers:


1: Not trying to prove a negative here. The burden of proof is on the one making the request for change.


2: Conjecture.


3: Completely subjective.

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2 years ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 9:20PM #94
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

May 29, 2012 -- 8:47PM, Thetwofish wrote:


Please provide arguments for why having a sexually pleasing marriage partner is a basic human right.


I've seen this a couple of times from you and a thought pops into my head.


Why would anyone want to NOT have a sexually pleasing marraige partner?  For Christ's sake, man, is this really one of your arguments???  Seriously???


Yeah...I'm gonna go out and find me a man that does NOTHING for me in bed...then I'm gonna marry that man because, after all, I have no human right to WANT to have a sexually pleasing partner. (strong sarcasm)


That argument makes NO SENSE!!!  Not even heterosexuals would go for that line.  They want a sexually pleasing partner...and go through a lot of partners to find one.


I can't imagine a more HORRIBLE existance than to be in a marriage to someone I didn't wanna get naked with or have touch me.


YUCK!!!


Peace


<'{{><





So, in other words, there might be some difficulties to overcome, gays are entitled to it.


Not a good argument. And again, based upon subjective appeals to emotion.

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2 years ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 9:26PM #95
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

May 29, 2012 -- 8:40PM, Thetwofish wrote:


And I would still like an answer to a question I posted on the other board.  Where is your compassion for your fellow human beings?


What would you tell your son or daughter if they came to you and told you they were in love and wanted to get married.  And then they dropped the bomb that the person they were in love with was the same sex.


What would YOU say to them?


I'm not gay.  And even before I found out that my nephew was, I still didn't have a problem with gays getting married.  Now it's personal, but before that, I had no dog in the fight, so to speak.  And yet, I have compassion and empathy for their position.


They work, pay taxes, eat, feel sad, feel happy, have a LIFE, just like heterosexuals.  They are EQUAL in every way but ONE.  They are not recognized by the federal government as a normal member of society who deserve, not WANT, to have the same right to marriage that the straights have.


Peace


<'{{><





Why do you assume I don't have compassion?


Why assume compassion requires approval?


Why assume loving a child, or having compassion for them requires approving of everything they do as an adult?


Why assume I would expect my adult children to live by my ideas or standards?


Why assume one showing up with a gay partner would shock, or bother me in the least?


Why assume I would say anything, other than: "Great! When's the wedding?


As to your last set of arguments -- again, they are all subjective appeals to emotion.


Or, to put it another way, just because a golf cart has many of the same characteristics of a car, that does not mean they are, or by rights should be, on equal terms on the freeway.

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2 years ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 9:55PM #96
mountain_man
Posts: 39,703

May 29, 2012 -- 9:19PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

1: Not trying to prove a negative here. The burden of proof is on the one making the request for change.


Fallacious argument. No one should have to ask for equal rights.


2: Conjecture.


As are all the arguments against marriage equality - which is why you're evading them.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 9:57PM #97
mountain_man
Posts: 39,703

May 29, 2012 -- 9:26PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

Why do you assume I don't have compassion?


You've not shown any, nor have you come up with anything but evasion.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 9:59PM #98
Yavanna
Posts: 3,149

May 29, 2012 -- 9:57PM, mountain_man wrote:


May 29, 2012 -- 9:26PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

Why do you assume I don't have compassion?


You've not shown any, nor have you come up with anything but evasion.




+1

The dwarves of yore made mighty spells,
While hammers fell like ringing bells
In places deep, where dark things sleep,
In hollow halls beneath the fells.

For ancient king and elvish lord
There many a gloaming golden hoard
They shaped and wrought, and light they caught
To hide in gems on hilt of sword.
- J.R.R. Tolkien
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2 years ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 10:37PM #99
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,786

May 29, 2012 -- 9:59PM, Yavanna wrote:


May 29, 2012 -- 9:57PM, mountain_man wrote:


May 29, 2012 -- 9:26PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

Why do you assume I don't have compassion?


You've not shown any, nor have you come up with anything but evasion.




+1




+2

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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2 years ago  ::  May 30, 2012 - 12:24AM #100
Thetwofish
Posts: 581

mm: Why do you assume I don't have compassion?


Because I have seen none in your posts.


Why assume compassion requires approval?


Why do/would gay people need your approval?  Compasssion is all that is needed.


Why assume loving a child, or having compassion for them requires approving of everything they do as an adult?


Again with the approving.  You make it sound like they are doing something that would NEED approval.  They aren't...anymore than you needed anyone's approval to love  and have sex with whomever you chose and marry that person if you wanted to.  You really are a self-righteous bigot, aren't you?


Why assume one showing up with a gay partner would shock, or bother me in the least?


Because of the lack of compassion I've OBSERVED in your posts.  I was just curious that if it was your child, would you continue the argument that they are "inferior" and that you don't approve because of that.


Why assume I would say anything, other than: "Great! When's the wedding?


Just going by the posts that you present here.  Are you saying that you are a fake?  And that you are only here to be a troll?  That you really have no problem with gay marriage and argue ad nauseum with dissapproval...well, just to get someone's gander up so you can snicker at the keyboard with joy at how many feathers you ruffled???


As to your last set of arguments -- again, they are all subjective appeals to emotion.


Nope...OBSERVATIONS.  Objectivity in action.  And what the bleep is WRONG with appealing to emotion?  Compassion is an emotion...so I guess you don't get it.


Or, to put it another way, just because a golf cart has many of the same characteristics of a car, that does not mean they are, or by rights should be, on equal terms on the freeway.


People aren't cars.  Cars don't have attractions, needs, desires.  Please drop the analogies...they suck.  Like the smearing food on one's skin...like anybody would DO THAT!!  You obviously didn't read my rebuttal on that analogy.


 

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