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2 years ago  ::  May 17, 2012 - 11:18AM #21
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,158

May 17, 2012 -- 10:25AM, TPaine wrote:


May 17, 2012 -- 9:32AM, teilhard wrote:


Monica Lewinski and Bill Clinton ... ???


;-)


May 17, 2012 -- 9:27AM, Marcion wrote:


May 16, 2012 -- 3:00PM, Yavanna wrote:


May 16, 2012 -- 1:47PM, Marcion wrote:


Obama is setting his federal dogs loose to charge Zimmerman with a hate crime. Is he that hard up for votes to grasp at straws.


Hate Crime, now there's a politically correct liberal zinger.


For instance if an individual has deep loathing for another person and kills him; he can not be charged with a "Hate Crime" because his victim was neither black nor gay. Forget that the motive for the crime was hatred.



You do realize it's possible to commit a hate crime against a heterosexual caucasian right? Even one that's a Christian?



Reread my post. Hate crimes are limited to minorities and gays. Many blacks are Christian-what's your point?


Can anyone define a Love Crime?




+1





Give the man a cigar!Laughing

“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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2 years ago  ::  May 17, 2012 - 12:52PM #22
mindis1
Posts: 7,954

Does anyone know of evidence that Zimmerman did not reasonably believe that such force as he used was necessary to prevent serious injury to himself?


776.012 Use of force in defense of person. --


. . . a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:


(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another . . .


www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/Chap...

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2 years ago  ::  May 17, 2012 - 12:54PM #23
mindis1
Posts: 7,954

May 17, 2012 -- 10:53AM, Marcion wrote:


I find the whole hate crime idea as silly.



Really? The motivation for a crime is often one of the most important considerations in sentencing.  


And those crimes that are classified as hate crimes, which trigger enhanced sentences, are often quite frightening to an entire community. For instance, someone who spray paints a big red smiley face on a white street-facing garage door is committing a senseless property crime. On the other hand, when someone spray paints the word “NIGGER” on the garage door of an African American family, it provokes great concern, at the very least, among a whole community. It is particularly dehumanizing to that family, in a way that the big red smiley face is not. It has a much greater, more devastating, effect on both the family and the community than the smiley face. Right?

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2 years ago  ::  May 17, 2012 - 12:57PM #24
Yavanna
Posts: 3,149

May 17, 2012 -- 10:53AM, Marcion wrote:


May 17, 2012 -- 10:39AM, TPaine wrote:


May 16, 2012 -- 1:47PM, Marcion wrote:


Obama is setting his federal dogs loose to charge Zimmerman with a hate crime. Is he that hard up for votes to grasp at straws.


Hate Crime, now there's a politically correct liberal zinger.


For instance if an individual has deep loathing for another person and kills him; he can not be charged with a "Hate Crime" because his victim was neither black nor gay. Forget that the motive for the crime was hatred.



The definition of hate crime is:

hate crime : a crime that violates the victim's civil rights and that is motivated by hostility to the victim's race, religion, creed, national origin, sexual orientation, or gender. Link


Nowhere in that definition does it limit victims to blacks and gays.




What about a crime motivated by hate but not defined as a hate crime.


I find the whole hate crime idea as silly.




That's because you don't understand it. Therefore it must be silly.

The dwarves of yore made mighty spells,
While hammers fell like ringing bells
In places deep, where dark things sleep,
In hollow halls beneath the fells.

For ancient king and elvish lord
There many a gloaming golden hoard
They shaped and wrought, and light they caught
To hide in gems on hilt of sword.
- J.R.R. Tolkien
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2 years ago  ::  May 17, 2012 - 2:04PM #25
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

May 17, 2012 -- 12:54PM, mindis1 wrote:


May 17, 2012 -- 10:53AM, Marcion wrote:


I find the whole hate crime idea as silly.



Really? The motivation for a crime is often one of the most important considerations in sentencing.  


And those crimes that are classified as hate crimes, which trigger enhanced sentences, are often quite frightening to an entire community. For instance, someone who spray paints a big red smiley face on a white street-facing garage door is committing a senseless property crime. On the other hand, when someone spray paints the word “NIGGER” on the garage door of an African American family, it provokes great concern, at the very least, among a whole community. It is particularly dehumanizing to that family, in a way that the big red smiley face is not. It has a much greater, more devastating, effect on both the family and the community than the smiley face. Right?




So, again, by that reasoning, if some thugs stage a home invasion at the mansion of a rich, white Republican family -- then that will have a devastating effect and lingering terror and anxiety on the rich, white Republican community. Therefore, rich, white Republicans should also have "hate crime" protections.

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2 years ago  ::  May 17, 2012 - 3:29PM #26
teilhard
Posts: 51,527

OR a Swastika on a Synagogue, etc., exactly ...


May 17, 2012 -- 12:54PM, mindis1 wrote:


May 17, 2012 -- 10:53AM, Marcion wrote:


I find the whole hate crime idea as silly.



Really? The motivation for a crime is often one of the most important considerations in sentencing.  


And those crimes that are classified as hate crimes, which trigger enhanced sentences, are often quite frightening to an entire community. For instance, someone who spray paints a big red smiley face on a white street-facing garage door is committing a senseless property crime. On the other hand, when someone spray paints the word “NIGGER” on the garage door of an African American family, it provokes great concern, at the very least, among a whole community. It is particularly dehumanizing to that family, in a way that the big red smiley face is not. It has a much greater, more devastating, effect on both the family and the community than the smiley face. Right?





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2 years ago  ::  May 17, 2012 - 4:15PM #27
Cesmom
Posts: 5,201

Bottom line as has been said many times...


Zimmerman was wrong.  Period.  If every single claim that Zimmerman has made about what happened that night turned out to be 100% true, Zimmerman was still wrong.  There is no way around that indisputable fact.  Martin didn't approach his car and attack him.  He followed Martin with a gun.  He was wrong and should be prosecuted. 


Now, we can debate about just how wrong he may have been and just what crime he should be prosecuted for, but there is no way around the fact that his poor judgment caused a young man to lose his life.  Period.  Next.

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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2 years ago  ::  May 17, 2012 - 5:00PM #28
Stardove
Posts: 15,587

It's been reported there are videos of what happened the night Trayvon was killed by Zimmerman.  Those will be very telling...at least I hope they are. 


When it comes to stand your ground Trayvon had a right to do that, even if he didn't have a gun.  He was being followed by a stranger.


As to medical records I wonder if HIPAA laws have been violated.  Tongue Out


Don't you know Zimmerman's lawyers must have rushed to the media with medical records? Too bad Zimmerman didn't rush to ER the same night of the killing. 


Wonder how hard it is to break you own nose? Just saying...anything is possible afterwards.

Beliefnet Community Wide Moderator ~ Peace Love Stardove
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The words I speak and write carry energy and power, so I choose them with care and clear purpose. 

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2 years ago  ::  May 17, 2012 - 5:34PM #29
TPaine
Posts: 9,385

May 17, 2012 -- 10:53AM, Marcion wrote:


May 17, 2012 -- 10:39AM, TPaine wrote:


May 16, 2012 -- 1:47PM, Marcion wrote:


Obama is setting his federal dogs loose to charge Zimmerman with a hate crime. Is he that hard up for votes to grasp at straws.


Hate Crime, now there's a politically correct liberal zinger.


For instance if an individual has deep loathing for another person and kills him; he can not be charged with a "Hate Crime" because his victim was neither black nor gay. Forget that the motive for the crime was hatred.



The definition of hate crime is:

hate crime : a crime that violates the victim's civil rights and that is motivated by hostility to the victim's race, religion, creed, national origin, sexual orientation, or gender. Link


Nowhere in that definition does it limit victims to blacks and gays.



What about a crime motivated by hate but not defined as a hate crime.



If a crime fits the definition of a hate crime it should be prosecuted as such regardless of who the perpetrator and victim may be.


May 17, 2012 -- 10:53AM, Marcion wrote:

I find the whole hate crime idea as silly.



If you're ever the victim of one we'll see if you change your mind.

"The genius of the Constitution rests not in any static meaning it might have had in a world that is dead and gone, but in the adaptability of its great principles to cope with current problems and current needs." -- Justice William Brennan: Speech to the Text and Teaching Symposium at Georgetown University (October 12, 1985)
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2 years ago  ::  May 17, 2012 - 5:41PM #30
TPaine
Posts: 9,385

May 17, 2012 -- 12:52PM, mindis1 wrote:


Does anyone know of evidence that Zimmerman did not reasonably believe that such force as he used was necessary to prevent serious injury to himself?


776.012 Use of force in defense of person. --


. . . a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:


(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another . . .


www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/Chap...



The co-authors of the Florida "Stand Your Ground Law" both agree that it should not apply in the Zimmerman case. Link

"The genius of the Constitution rests not in any static meaning it might have had in a world that is dead and gone, but in the adaptability of its great principles to cope with current problems and current needs." -- Justice William Brennan: Speech to the Text and Teaching Symposium at Georgetown University (October 12, 1985)
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