BTW, Stardove, Teilhard, MM, Drawout (et al.): You have already decided that Zimmerman should be convicted (of something), correct?
Where is it written that we are not entitled to voice an opinion on this topic? Why do you feel the need to respond with personal attacks if someone's opinion is not to your liking? In case you forgot; this is a DISCUSSION forum. We are discussing something. If you don't like what we are discussing, you are free to leave.
Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.
I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
Well, I find it "extremely offensive" that George "Night Stalker" Zimmerman has attracted a Fan Club -- DESPITE the Fact that he shot and killed an unarmed Teenager who was harmlessly walking Home to his GrandFather's House carrying a Soft Drink and a Bag of "Skittles" ...
I find Teilhards labeling Zimmerman as a night stalker extremely offensive and inflamatory. Zimmerman bears no resemblance to Richard Ramirez the true night stalker. Using Teilhards logic we might as well refer to Jurgen as Ted Bundy.
1. You haven't noted any evidence that Zimmerman "instigated" or "escalated" any altercation....
He got out of his car. End of story.
It's a shame that you have to rely upon juvenile personal attacks.
Getting out of the car was a poor choice, and against even the most basic street smarts.
Hell, I'm a country hick from Wyoming, and I have more street smarts than that.
However, making a poor choice does not justify getting the hell beat out of you... and the evidence suggests that Martin was, in fact, beating the hell out of Zimmerman.
If Martin threw the first punch (and the evidence suggest he did) that wasn't justified. If Martin was on top of Zimmerman, and was trying to slam his head through the pavement (which could very well kill somebody, and again, evidence suggests he did) -- then that most certainly was not justified.
"You're a creepy guy; I don't like you following me" is not a good justification for punching somebody, knocking them down and then proceeding to smash their head into the pavement. That's not self-defense.
Shooting somebody who is slamming your head into the pavement (which again, could very well disable or kill you) isself defense.
So, the question then becomes, was Martin's attack severe enough to justify Zimmerman shooting him? Did Zimmerman point the gun at Martin before he attacked?
Or, did Zimmerman pull the gun only after he was well into getting the holy living crap pounded out of him?
I don't think Zimmerman should walk. He violated the fundamental rule of neighborhood watch by leaving his vehicle and pursuing Trayvon. That being said, he should be tried for manslaughter and not murder.
It IS possible that under The (now properly INFAMOUS) "Stand Your Ground" Law, Trayvon Martin MAY have simply engaged in Self-Defense against an ARMED Stalker ...
1. You haven't noted any evidence that Zimmerman "instigated" or "escalated" any altercation....
He got out of his car. End of story.
It's a shame that you have to rely upon juvenile personal attacks.
Getting out of the car was a poor choice, and against even the most basic street smarts.
Hell, I'm a country hick from Wyoming, and I have more street smarts than that.
However, making a poor choice does not justify getting the hell beat out of you... and the evidence suggests that Martin was, in fact, beating the hell out of Zimmerman.
If Martin threw the first punch (and the evidence suggest he did) that wasn't justified. If Martin was on top of Zimmerman, and was trying to slam his head through the pavement (which could very well kill somebody, and again, evidence suggests he did) -- then that most certainly was not justified.
"You're a creepy guy; I don't like you following me" is not a good justification for punching somebody, knocking them down and then proceeding to smash their head into the pavement. That's not self-defense.
Shooting somebody who is slamming your head into the pavement (which again, could very well disable or kill you) isself defense.
So, the question then becomes, was Martin's attack severe enough to justify Zimmerman shooting him? Did Zimmerman point the gun at Martin before he attacked?
Or, did Zimmerman pull the gun only after he was well into getting the holy living crap pounded out of him?
It could well be that he will plead to such a lesser Offense ...
In any Case, no matter the Outcome of the CRIMINAL Charges, I have no Doubt that there will be a Civil Lawsuit for "Wrongful Death" ... and of course, The Feds are involved in their OWN Investigation ...
No Doubt, also, that Zimmerman's deep Hope to become a Licensed Peace Officer ... is Dead and Gone ... I can't imagine that he would now ever be hired even as a Security Guard ...
So ... Yes ... Zimmerman will somehow pay a VERY heavy personal Price for his Actions that Night ...
I don't think Zimmerman should walk. He violated the fundamental rule of neighborhood watch by leaving his vehicle and pursuing Trayvon. That being said, he should be tried for manslaughter and not murder.
Getting out of the car was a poor choice, and against even the most basic street smarts.
Hell, I'm a country hick from Wyoming, and I have more street smarts than that.
However, making a poor choice does not justify getting the hell beat out of you... and the evidence suggests that Martin was, in fact, beating the hell out of Zimmerman.
In this case it does. If some buffoon comes after me asking questions I'll do the same. Zimmerman had no right what so ever to stop and question Martin.
If Martin threw the first punch (and the evidence suggest he did)....
There is no evidence of that unless there is a video of it. Zimmerman has a history of aggressive behavior and the racist remark he made doesn't help any. Zimmerman escalated the situation when he got out of the car. He needs to go to prison.
Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.
I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
I don't think Zimmerman should walk. He violated the fundamental rule of neighborhood watch by leaving his vehicle and pursuing Trayvon. That being said, he should be tried for manslaughter and not murder.
I think most would agree with that. Zimmerman did not plan on murdering anyone. He did cause the situation and a death resulted. Manslaughter is appropriate and carries a minimum of 9.25 years. I think they are going for 2nd degree and hoping for a plea down to manslaughter.
Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.
I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
Getting out of the car was a poor choice, and against even the most basic street smarts.
Hell, I'm a country hick from Wyoming, and I have more street smarts than that.
However, making a poor choice does not justify getting the hell beat out of you... and the evidence suggests that Martin was, in fact, beating the hell out of Zimmerman.
In this case it does. If some buffoon comes after me asking questions I'll do the same. Zimmerman had no right what so ever to stop and question Martin.
If Martin threw the first punch (and the evidence suggest he did)....
There is no evidence of that unless there is a video of it. Zimmerman has a history of aggressive behavior and the racist remark he made doesn't help any. Zimmerman escalated the situation when he got out of the car. He needs to go to prison.
1. You haven't noted any evidence that Zimmerman "instigated" or "escalated" any altercation....
He got out of his car. End of story.
It's a shame that you have to rely upon juvenile personal attacks.
Getting out of the car was a poor choice, and against even the most basic street smarts.
Hell, I'm a country hick from Wyoming, and I have more street smarts than that.
However, making a poor choice does not justify getting the hell beat out of you... and the evidence suggests that Martin was, in fact, beating the hell out of Zimmerman.
If Martin threw the first punch (and the evidence suggest he did) that wasn't justified. If Martin was on top of Zimmerman, and was trying to slam his head through the pavement (which could very well kill somebody, and again, evidence suggests he did) -- then that most certainly was not justified.
"You're a creepy guy; I don't like you following me" is not a good justification for punching somebody, knocking them down and then proceeding to smash their head into the pavement. That's not self-defense.
Shooting somebody who is slamming your head into the pavement (which again, could very well disable or kill you) isself defense.
So, the question then becomes, was Martin's attack severe enough to justify Zimmerman shooting him? Did Zimmerman point the gun at Martin before he attacked?
Or, did Zimmerman pull the gun only after he was well into getting the holy living crap pounded out of him?
If so, Zimmerman should walk.
If not, he should go to prison.
What we don't know is who threw the first punch and what the circumstances under which it was done were. When that evidence is presented in court the jury will make the decision.
"When it shall be said in any country in the world, my poor are happy; neither ignorance nor distress is to be found among them; my jails are empty of prisoners, my streets of beggars; the aged are not in want, the taxes are not oppressive; the rational world is my friend, because I am a friend of its happiness: When these things can be said, then may the country boast its constitution and its government." -- Thomas Paine: The Rights Of Man (1791)
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