Post Reply
Page 3 of 6  •  Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next
Switch to Forum Live View Gay, Bullying, and Suicide
2 years ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 6:48PM #21
mountain_man
Posts: 38,790

May 7, 2012 -- 5:54PM, TemplarS wrote:

I don't know why this is controversial.


Some are very sensitive about their homophobia. They don't want the topic discussed as it might put them in a bad light - as it should.


It is very clear that bullying can lead to suicide among young people; and not just of gays (here, for example: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Phoebe_... )


Sadly there are too many examples.


Unfortunately, there is something in human nature that leads people to want to be cruel to those different from themselves.  Teenagers seem inordinately susceptible to this.  Gays happen to be very convenient victims these days. The cyber-world has aggravated the problem. You cannot make these facts go away.


As has been shown; many times that aggression is a way of deflecting attention from themselves and the fact that they are afraid of actually being what they hate. Numerous studies have shown that many homophobes are sexually aroused when viewing gay porn.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  May 08, 2012 - 10:36AM #22
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

May 7, 2012 -- 6:30PM, TemplarS wrote:


May 7, 2012 -- 6:02PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


And I would say gays are less hated these days than Muslims.






What is this, a contest?


Anyhow, the point is, you can always find reasons why people behave in unacceptible ways. But that is no reason to tolerate such behavior. 




Some people don't like anybody who they can percieve as "other" -- for whatever reason.


I once considered making my own tongue-in-cheek bumper sticker reading "God hates people who are different" -- but then realized, too many folks might take it seriously. 


Anyway, I agree, we should not have to put up with bullying. I was on both ends of the bullying game as a kid (though more often, the receiving end). And it's an ugly thing. 


I don't think anybody here is trying to deny that. 

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  May 08, 2012 - 11:16AM #23
Nepenthe
Posts: 2,584

May 7, 2012 -- 6:30PM, TemplarS wrote:

Anyhow, the point is, you can always find reasons why people behave in unacceptible ways. But that is no reason to tolerate such behavior. 




That is right, we should not tolerate such behavior, or tolerate those that do nothing to stop such behavior.  Zero contract/union aggreements should prevent a teacher from being fired for participating in such actions.  Sadly, that is not the case right now.

Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends.
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  May 08, 2012 - 12:51PM #24
TemplarS
Posts: 6,593

May 8, 2012 -- 10:36AM, mytmouse57 wrote:


Some people don't like anybody who they can percieve as "other" -- for whatever reason.






You cannot change that.


But that is not the point. It is rather like when Barry Goldwater, in opposing the civil rights bill in the 60s, said "You cannot legislate morality."  That is perfectly true. But the point to the civil rights bill (and the point to anti-bullying laws now) was not to force white people to love black people, it was to force them to treat black people equally in education, housing, employment, voting, and so on.  Whether they liked them or not.


I don't care whether somebody likes gay people or not; if they harrass them, it should be criminally actionable.

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  May 08, 2012 - 3:28PM #25
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

May 8, 2012 -- 12:51PM, TemplarS wrote:


May 8, 2012 -- 10:36AM, mytmouse57 wrote:


Some people don't like anybody who they can percieve as "other" -- for whatever reason.






You cannot change that.


But that is not the point. It is rather like when Barry Goldwater, in opposing the civil rights bill in the 60s, said "You cannot legislate morality."  That is perfectly true. But the point to the civil rights bill (and the point to anti-bullying laws now) was not to force white people to love black people, it was to force them to treat black people equally in education, housing, employment, voting, and so on.  Whether they liked them or not.


I don't care whether somebody likes gay people or not; if they harrass them, it should be criminally actionable.




Harrassment is already illegal. As it should be. There's no need to draft special legislation to force people to be civil toward gays. Just enforce the existing laws requiring the civil treatment of any other human being. After all, last time I checked, gays are human beings. 


As far as bullying, it should likewise be discouraged against anybody. This is not just a "gay" issue.


In fact, a popular, good-looking gay kid from a wealthy family could just as easily be one of the bullies in some cases. 


Because bullying is usually the "in" crowd kids being mean to the awkward, homely or wrong-side-of-the-tracks, have-not kids. At least that was the case when I was in school. And it is still the case, from what I can tell -- having a few kids myself, spread out in age range from kindergarten all the way up to junior college. 


And since kids these days, with a few exceptions that tend to get a lot of press, are generally very accepting of homosexuality/gays, again, it's just as likey for a gay kid to be part of the "in" crowd, and doing the bullying.


But, part of the reason it's often framed as a "gay" issue is, because that scenerio, in media terms, is a sexy story right now.


If a gay kid gets harrased or humiliated, and commits suicide, it will make news, because it's a hot issue right now. That, and there is a social movement with a vested interest and getting it in front of the public and pounding that drum. 


But if a heavyset, homely girl (one of the most viciously targeted groups in kid/teen culture) experiences the same, and kills herself, it's not "news." 


And I'll add, there's no PSA drive or celebrity spokeswomen all over the T.V. and YouTube telling heavyset, homely girls that, despite being beset with misery and humilation now -- "it gets better" if they can just hold on a few more years. 


Perhaps Kathy Bates or Rosanne Barr, both very succesful and widely respected "big" women with less than stellar looks -- could take up that cause.


Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  May 08, 2012 - 5:31PM #26
TemplarS
Posts: 6,593

Mouse, I don't think any of this is aimed at you.  But there are people who deny that bullying is a problem: "it's just kids being kids" or excuses to that effect.


Certainly it is not just a gay issue, though you cannot deny gays have been targets.  And it is not true that non-gay bullying cases have been ignored. There was the Phoebe Prince case I mentioned earlier (which must have been publicized or I wouldn't have heard of it), where people have in fact  been charged.


 


 

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  May 08, 2012 - 6:04PM #27
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,779

May 7, 2012 -- 6:48PM, mountain_man wrote:


May 7, 2012 -- 5:54PM, TemplarS wrote:

I don't know why this is controversial.


Some are very sensitive about their homophobia. They don't want the topic discussed as it might put them in a bad light - as it should.



Some are very sensitive about their homophobia. They don't want the topic discussed as it might put them in a bad light - as it should.



How many of those who will not condemn bullying, are in fact bullies themselves.?

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  May 08, 2012 - 6:56PM #28
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

May 8, 2012 -- 5:31PM, TemplarS wrote:


Mouse, I don't think any of this is aimed at you.  But there are people who deny that bullying is a problem: "it's just kids being kids" or excuses to that effect.


Certainly it is not just a gay issue, though you cannot deny gays have been targets.  And it is not true that non-gay bullying cases have been ignored. There was the Phoebe Prince case I mentioned earlier (which must have been publicized or I wouldn't have heard of it), where people have in fact  been charged.


 


 




Oh, I never thought any of it was aimed at me, personally. I don't deny bullying is a problem. I was bullied as a kid. And, to be fair, I did some bullying myself. Either way, it's ugly. 


I think sometimes there are parties that do try to make it into a "gay" issue, and try to wring every bit of milage, so to speak, out of every bullied gay teen suicide case.


First, I think that's cynical and offensive. 


Secondly I think it minimizes -- even if only unintentionaly -- the plight of kids who suffer just as badly, or worse, than gays. Such as the heavyset, homely girls I mentioned in my previous post.


Again, I would say, with acceptance of homosexuality and gays blooming, espeically among young people -- I would think heavy girls have it much worse than many gay teens do these days. 


Heavy and/or unattractive girls have always been, viciously, made fun of. At school and at home. Perhaps the worst plight is that of the unattractive girl who has a beautiful sister or sisters. No doubt in my mind, all that being made fun of and rejected has pushed many such a girl to hurt or kill herself. 


But nobody ever talks about them. It's almost as if it's now taboo to tease the gay or lesbian teen (as it should be), but it's still okay to make fun of "the fat chick."

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  May 08, 2012 - 10:31PM #29
mountain_man
Posts: 38,790

May 8, 2012 -- 6:04PM, mainecaptain wrote:

How many of those who will not condemn bullying, are in fact bullies themselves.?


I'd figure quite a few. Recently some congressman, of course it would be a male, tried to add something to an anti-bullying bill that would make the bullying OK if it was because of a "deeply held religious belief."


Wait, I was wrong... here's the story:


The Michigan Senate passed legislation Wednesday [November 2011] that requires school districts to develop anti-bullying policies, but the father of the boy for whom the bill is named says he has strong objections to language inserted at the last minute.


One of the reforms will require school districts to have procedures in place to address bullying complaints. But the bill now also has language that says requirements don't "prohibit a statement of a sincerely held religious belief or moral conviction of a school employee, school volunteer, pupil, or a pupil's parent or guardian."


Kevin Epling, whose son Matt Epling killed himself in 2002 after being bullied, said that the added language will allow anyone to bully a student and cite their religious beliefs. He has worked with lawmakers for years to developed anti-bullying legislation. Source.


Other states have tried to do the same.


That just goes against EVERYTHING this country is supposed to stand for.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  May 08, 2012 - 11:32PM #30
Swim4fun
Posts: 24

May 7, 2012 -- 2:12PM, REteach wrote:


And there are still people who deny that bullying leads gay teens to commit suicide. 




People who deny the fact that bullying is one of the causes of gay teens suicidal, actually cannot take gay teen equally with the straight.

Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 3 of 6  •  Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook