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3 years ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 2:35PM #31
mountain_man
Posts: 40,556

May 7, 2012 -- 2:32PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

I'm not at all anti-intellectual....


The phrase you used was anti-intellictual.


I'm not "whining" about anything....


You are and it's not pretty. Leave out the sweeping generalizations that you complain about others using. Address the topic, not the poster.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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3 years ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 2:42PM #32
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

May 7, 2012 -- 2:35PM, mountain_man wrote:


May 7, 2012 -- 2:32PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

I'm not at all anti-intellectual....


The phrase you used was anti-intellictual.


I'm not "whining" about anything....


You are and it's not pretty. Leave out the sweeping generalizations that you complain about others using. Address the topic, not the poster.




Don't resort to lecturing because you can't come up with a good argument.


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3 years ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 2:43PM #33
Do_unto_others
Posts: 9,303

May 7, 2012 -- 1:38PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

Lots of people are opposed to gay marriage, for various reasons. You need to get over the "conservative" boogeyman. 



Nonsense. Progressives aren't AGAINST equal treatment for gay people.


May 7, 2012 -- 1:38PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

I know conservative Republicans who are for gay marriage.



Sorry, but those would not be "conservative Republicans"; they would be progressive Repoublicans. That's like girlchristian calling herself conservative when most of her ideologies are very progressive.


May 7, 2012 -- 1:38PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

You know that whole freedom of choice and government not intruding into people's lives thing.



Neither conservatives nor Republicans are in favor of freedom of choice. You must have missed the last 6 months of Republican primary electioneering. Or have chosen to ignore them. Can YOU say "forced transvaginal ultrasounds"? Or, "Planned Parenthood? I'd get rid of that."? Yet more delusion from the frightwing.


May 7, 2012 -- 1:38PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

Are they a minority in their party -- perhaps.



"PERHAPS"!!!??? You make me laugh.


May 7, 2012 -- 1:38PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

 But, on top of that I would add, none of the conservative people I know hate or fear gays. They just don't buy the argument that marriage is a fundamental human right



Then their fight is with the SC(R)OTUS, because they've said so on 14 different occasions.


May 7, 2012 -- 1:38PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

 and/or that gays are being denied a fundamental human right by not legally being able to marry one another.



Well, we ARE being denied that right, so for them npot to "buy" it just shows how very much their heads are in the sand on this issue.


May 7, 2012 -- 1:38PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

 Especially when alternatives, such as domestic partnerships, are available. 



You may not have heard, but some states forbid even those. Nor are they equal. Some states changed their Constitutions to forever bar any relationship even "resembling marriage" for gay couples, or from granting "the effects that flow from marriage" to such couples. You give so many refutable instances, you help make OUR point.


May 7, 2012 -- 1:38PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

Past that, you will have to get out and visit with them about what their opinons are, and why they oppsose gay marriage. Life can be a lot more interesting and fufilling if you visit with people you might not agree with 



That you believe I/we haven't done just that - for the last 60 years of my life, no less! - means you live in a fantasy world.


May 7, 2012 -- 1:38PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

As to the OP: One person, who happens to apparenlty be both a Christain and a political conservative said a stupid thing, and then back-peddled. 



No. MYRIAD such people have done preecisely this - over and over and over again. We've posted many such examples (and continue to post them) while YOU choose to ignore them or dismiss them.

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3 years ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 3:15PM #34
farragut
Posts: 4,189


"



May  7, 2012 --  2:38PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

I know conservative Republicans who are for gay marriage.




Sorry, but those would not be "conservative Republicans"; they would be progressive Repoublicans. That's like girlchristian calling herself conservative when most of her ideologies are very progressive."


 


May I comment on a point of this dialogue? Yes, there still are a few responsible conservative Republicans. I consider myself to be one in the tradition of the late great Margaret Chase Smith. My fundamental positions include limited government, fiscal responsibility, strong national defense, respect for the Constitution, and individual freedom.  That last point is most pertinent to this discussion, for individual freedom means that the government must stay to hell out of people's bedrooms, their wombs, their doctor's offices, and their personal contracts.


Marriage I would consider a civil right rather than a human right since so much in the legalisms of our society are affected thereby. But in our society there must be no discrimination with respect to who is permitted to enjoy such civil rights. They must be equally available to all citizens.


i would like to think that the GOP  should have evolved to recognize these truths, but, unfortunately, when the Dixiecrats and their fundangelical fellow travelers were invited into the party several decades ago, they took it over. And y'all know the result. I do not know if we'll ever be able to save the party.

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3 years ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 3:45PM #35
mountain_man
Posts: 40,556

May 7, 2012 -- 2:42PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

Don't resort to lecturing because you can't come up with a good argument.


You have yet to present something worth discussing. All you've done is whine about people using sweeping generalizations and then go on to use sweeping generalizations yourself. You whine about personal attacks - as in calling a homophobe a homophobe - and then use a long string of personal attacks yourself. Try coming up with a good reply and then we can have a good argument. Until then, there's not much choice.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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3 years ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 3:51PM #36
Do_unto_others
Posts: 9,303

May 7, 2012 -- 3:15PM, farragut wrote:

 


May I comment on a point of this dialogue? Yes, there still are a few responsible conservative Republicans. I consider myself to be one in the tradition of the late great Margaret Chase Smith. My fundamental positions include limited government, fiscal responsibility, strong national defense, respect for the Constitution, and individual freedom.  That last point is most pertinent to this discussion, for individual freedom means that the government must stay to hell out of people's bedrooms, their wombs, their doctor's offices, and their personal contracts.


Marriage I would consider a civil right rather than a human right since so much in the legalisms of our society are affected thereby. But in our society there must be no discrimination with respect to who is permitted to enjoy such civil rights. They must be equally available to all citizens.


i would like to think that the GOP  should have evolved to recognize these truths, but, unfortunately, when the Dixiecrats and their fundangelical fellow travelers were invited into the party several decades ago, they took it over. And y'all know the result. I do not know if we'll ever be able to save the party.





Your thoughts are appreciated (by me, anyway) but are rather missing (or silenced) in today's GOP. My very point. You are in no way a conservative if you believe "individual freedom means that the government must stay to hell out of people's bedrooms, their wombs, their doctor's offices, and their personal contracts", since a certain "severely conservative" republican signed a "pledge" to crap on those tenets.

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3 years ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 3:55PM #37
farragut
Posts: 4,189

I do not consider those people conservatives. They are radical reactionaries.

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3 years ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 4:02PM #38
Do_unto_others
Posts: 9,303

True, but try convincing some mice of that.

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3 years ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 4:06PM #39
mountain_man
Posts: 40,556

May 7, 2012 -- 3:55PM, farragut wrote:

I do not consider those people conservatives. They are radical reactionaries.


There are also several kinds of conservatives; the radical reactionaries that are easily manipulated, then there's the fiscal conservatives that want a small, ineffectual, useless government, and then the social conservatives that want to control your personal lives.


Right now the whole party seems to be catering to those radical reactionaries.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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3 years ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 4:08PM #40
Do_unto_others
Posts: 9,303

May 7, 2012 -- 4:06PM, mountain_man wrote:


May 7, 2012 -- 3:55PM, farragut wrote:

I do not consider those people conservatives. They are radical reactionaries.


There are also several kinds of conservatives; the radical reactionaries that are easily manipulated, then there's the fiscal conservatives that want a small, ineffectual, useless government, and then the social conservatives that want to control your personal lives.


Right now the whole party seems to be catering to those radical reactionaries.





+ 1.

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