Important Announcement

See here for an important message regarding the community which has become a read-only site as of October 31.

 
Post Reply
Page 2 of 3  •  Prev 1 2 3 Next
Switch to Forum Live View On bin Laden raid anniversary, Obama makes surprise visit to Afghanistan
6 years ago  ::  May 05, 2012 - 11:31AM #11
arielg
Posts: 9,116

In the wake of Osama bin Laden’s summary execution one year ago, many predicted that the War on Terror would finally begin to recede. Here’s what has happened since then:


*With large bipartisan majorities, Congress renewed the once-controversial Patriot Act without a single reform, and it was signed into law by President Obama; Harry Reid accused those urging reforms of putting the country at risk of a Terrorist attack.


* For the first time, perhaps ever, a U.S. citizen was assassinated by the CIA, on orders from the President, without a shred of due process and far from any battlefield; two weeks later, his 16-year-old American son was also killed by his own government; the U.S. Attorney General then gave a speech claiming the President has the power to target U.S. citizens for death based on unproven, secret accusations of Terrorism.


* With large bipartisan majorities, Congress enacted, and the President signed, a new law codifying presidential powers of worldwide indefinite detention and an expanded statutory defintion of the War on Terror.


* Construction neared completion for a sprawling new site in Utah for the National Security Agency to enable massive domestic surveillance and to achieve "the realization of the ‘total information awareness’ program created during the first term of the Bush administration."


* President Obama authorized the use of "signature" drone strikes in Yemen, whereby the CIA can target people for death "even when the identity of those who could be killed is not known."


* The U.S. formally expanded its drone attacks in Somalia, "reopening a base for the unmanned aircraft on the island nation of Seychelles."


* A U.S. drone killed 16-year-old Pakistani Tariq Aziz, along with his 12-year-old cousin, Waheed, three days after the older boy attended a meeting to protest civilian deaths from U.S. drones (another of Tariq’s cousins had been killed in 2010).


* NATO airstrikes continued to extinguish the lives of Afghan children; in just the last 24 hours, 5 more Afghan children were killed by the ongoing war.


* The FBI increased its aggressive attempts to recruit young Muslim-American males into Terror plots which the FBI concocts, funds, encourages, directs and enables, while prosecuting more and more Muslims in the U.S. for crimes grounded in their political views and speech.


Does it sound like the War on Terror and its accompanying civil liberties erosions are ending, or going in the opposite direction? The morning after the bin Laden killing, I wrote that the killing of bin Laden would likely re-ignite American excitement over militarism and would thus likely further fuel, rather than retard, the War and its various implications.


As always: combatting Terrorism is not the end of the War on Terror; the War on Terror is the end in itself, and Terrorism is merely its pretext.


www.salon.com/2012/05/04/more_federal_ju...

Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  May 05, 2012 - 2:25PM #12
rabello
Posts: 29,815

May 1, 2012 -- 5:23PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


It will be a great day when the useless, expensive and ill advised war in Afghanistan is finally over.



Some of us won't even be alive to see it, in 2024.  That'll make it a 23 year old escapade.   Of course, some future president might recind this president's exeuctve orders and exclusive negotiations without Congressional participation or approval; perhaps the do nothing Congress will grow up and start participating, if in nothing else, defunding the whole "adventure".


Thank you, arielg, for linking the Greenwald article that gives us a clearer idea of what we're doing than the president's speeches, which could be given from the Oval Office as well as Afghanistan, except for it's reelection strategy

Black Lives Matter
Muslim Lives Matter
There is no such thing as "illegals"
LGBT Lives Matter
Poor Women's Lives Matter

"If we jump too quickly to the universal formulation, 'all lives matter,' then we miss the fact that black people have not yet been included in the idea of 'all lives.'"

--Professor Judith Butler
Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  May 06, 2012 - 9:37AM #13
teilhard
Posts: 53,304

(Reportedly) one of (the late) Osama bin Laden's Hopes was that al Qaida Activities would either bankrupt The West or force us to withdraw ...


May 5, 2012 -- 2:25PM, rabello wrote:


May 1, 2012 -- 5:23PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


It will be a great day when the useless, expensive and ill advised war in Afghanistan is finally over.



Some of us won't even be alive to see it, in 2024.  That'll make it a 23 year old escapade.   Of course, some future president might recind this president's exeuctve orders and exclusive negotiations without Congressional participation or approval; perhaps the do nothing Congress will grow up and start participating, if in nothing else, defunding the whole "adventure".


Thank you, arielg, for linking the Greenwald article that gives us a clearer idea of what we're doing than the president's speeches, which could be given from the Oval Office as well as Afghanistan, except for it's reelection strategy





Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  May 06, 2012 - 2:40PM #14
BDboy
Posts: 8,220

May 2, 2012 -- 6:02PM, vra wrote:


The agreement was months in the making and was and is very much a major policy announcement that has significant ramifications.  Whether one agrees with this decision or not, it had to be explained. 




 


>>>>>>> Joe Biden announced at "Meet the press" that, this agreement was in the making for last 20 months!!


His statement did not sound authentic to me. He wants us to think a politician will travel to Afghanistan on the anniversary of OBL's death JUST to sign some papers!!


Anyway Obama made the call and he gets to enjoy "Political points" out of it. I am sure Republicans would have shouted more if they were the brain behind OBL raid.


In this election year politicians will milk everything possible to get elected, we are just warming up folks.

Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  May 06, 2012 - 2:54PM #15
BDboy
Posts: 8,220

May 5, 2012 -- 11:31AM, arielg wrote:


In the wake of Osama bin Laden’s summary execution one year ago, many predicted that the War on Terror would finally begin to recede. Here’s what has happened since then:


*With large bipartisan majorities, Congress renewed the once-controversial Patriot Act without a single reform, and it was signed into law by President Obama; Harry Reid accused those urging reforms of putting the country at risk of a Terrorist attack.


* For the first time, perhaps ever, a U.S. citizen was assassinated by the CIA, on orders from the President, without a shred of due process and far from any battlefield; two weeks later, his 16-year-old American son was also killed by his own government; the U.S. Attorney General then gave a speech claiming the President has the power to target U.S. citizens for death based on unproven, secret accusations of Terrorism.


* With large bipartisan majorities, Congress enacted, and the President signed, a new law codifying presidential powers of worldwide indefinite detention and an expanded statutory defintion of the War on Terror.


* Construction neared completion for a sprawling new site in Utah for the National Security Agency to enable massive domestic surveillance and to achieve "the realization of the ‘total information awareness’ program created during the first term of the Bush administration."


* President Obama authorized the use of "signature" drone strikes in Yemen, whereby the CIA can target people for death "even when the identity of those who could be killed is not known."


* The U.S. formally expanded its drone attacks in Somalia, "reopening a base for the unmanned aircraft on the island nation of Seychelles."


* A U.S. drone killed 16-year-old Pakistani Tariq Aziz, along with his 12-year-old cousin, Waheed, three days after the older boy attended a meeting to protest civilian deaths from U.S. drones (another of Tariq’s cousins had been killed in 2010).


* NATO airstrikes continued to extinguish the lives of Afghan children; in just the last 24 hours, 5 more Afghan children were killed by the ongoing war.


* The FBI increased its aggressive attempts to recruit young Muslim-American males into Terror plots which the FBI concocts, funds, encourages, directs and enables, while prosecuting more and more Muslims in the U.S. for crimes grounded in their political views and speech.


Does it sound like the War on Terror and its accompanying civil liberties erosions are ending, or going in the opposite direction? The morning after the bin Laden killing, I wrote that the killing of bin Laden would likely re-ignite American excitement over militarism and would thus likely further fuel, rather than retard, the War and its various implications.


As always: combatting Terrorism is not the end of the War on Terror; the War on Terror is the end in itself, and Terrorism is merely its pretext.


www.salon.com/2012/05/04/more_federal_ju...




 


>>>>>>>>>> Well according to this article, Obama and Bush worked hard to make OBL's dream come true. He wanted to change America and (According to this article) he did!!


I think this is high time to re-examine mistakes of last decade and improve the "Processes" of defending America. Where dumb ideas are replaced by smart ideas and smart people.


FBI's attempt to get Muslim American men is disturbing and " codifying presidential powers of worldwide indefinite detention and an expanded statutory defintion of the War on Terror" is alarming.


 

Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  May 06, 2012 - 6:14PM #16
rabello
Posts: 29,815

May 6, 2012 -- 2:40PM, BDboy wrote:


>>>>>>> Joe Biden announced at "Meet the press" that, this agreement was in the making for last 20 months!!


His statement did not sound authentic to me. He wants us to think a politician will travel to Afghanistan on the anniversary of OBL's death JUST to sign some papers!!


Anyway Obama made the call and he gets to enjoy "Political points" out of it. I am sure Republicans would have shouted more if they were the brain behind OBL raid.


In this election year politicians will milk everything possible to get elected, we are just warming up folks.




True enough.  It's going to be far different from the "anti war" flavor of the 2008 campaign, even though it wasn't real.


Joe Biden is one of the biggest hawks in the government, really, no different from McCain or Lindsay Graham.   He also suffers intensely from foot in mouth disease.  

May 6, 2012 -- 2:54PM, BDboy wrote:


>>>>>>>>>> Well according to this article, Obama and Bush worked hard to make OBL's dream come true. He wanted to change America and (According to this article) he did!!


I think this is high time to re-examine mistakes of last decade and improve the "Processes" of defending America. Where dumb ideas are replaced by smart ideas and smart people.


FBI's attempt to get Muslim American men is disturbing and " codifying presidential powers of worldwide indefinite detention and an expanded statutory defintion of the War on Terror" is alarming.




Agree.  Doubtful things will change is a second Obama term or a first Romney term, though. 

Black Lives Matter
Muslim Lives Matter
There is no such thing as "illegals"
LGBT Lives Matter
Poor Women's Lives Matter

"If we jump too quickly to the universal formulation, 'all lives matter,' then we miss the fact that black people have not yet been included in the idea of 'all lives.'"

--Professor Judith Butler
Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  May 06, 2012 - 6:45PM #17
teilhard
Posts: 53,304

Look ... Running for High Office is EASY ...


Make LOTS and LOADS of Heart-felt -- and SINCERE !!! -- Promises to change, change, change  and improve, improve, improve E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G done by The Evil and Stupid PREVIOUS Administration ...


And, then ... Upon TAKING High Office ... Immediately the newly-elected High Officer discovers that changes-and-improvements are VASTLY easier PROMISED than PERFORMED ...


What SHOULD have been done with those Gitmo Detainees ... ???  Really ... ???  Can they just be moved in with YOU in that spare Basement BedRoom ... ???  Why not ... ???

Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  May 06, 2012 - 7:34PM #18
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,506

A quote is attributed to President John Kennedy, in 1961, recently installed into the Oval Office after a bitterly contested election against Dick Nixon.


“What we found out,” JFK said, “was that things were just as bad as we said they were. Maybe worse.”

“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  May 06, 2012 - 10:57PM #19
rabello
Posts: 29,815

May 6, 2012 -- 6:45PM, teilhard wrote:


What SHOULD have been done with those Gitmo Detainees ... ???  Really ... ???  Can they just be moved in with YOU in that spare Basement BedRoom ... ???  Why not ... ???




You should ask the guy you voted for, not me.  He's the one that said he'd close Gitmo without saying WHAT he had in mind for the detainees.


Obama should have told us his intention was merely to replace Gitmo in Cuba with a Gitmo in the US.  He should have told us he agreed with indefinite detention of suspects without evidence, charge or trial, or even a "not guilty" verdict.   He should have told us he would be "ending" the wars (actually military attacs/invasions/occupations) by using unmanned drones instead of armies. He should have told us he believed in the Unitary Executive prinicple that allows one man in the entire world, without any judicial oversight whatsoever, to order the execution of American citizens without trial or conviction.  He should have told us he agrees with "preemptive war" doctrine.  He should have told us he believes torture could be ordered by the Unitary Executive in rare cases.  He should have told us he actually supported/supports to Patriot Act, even though he said he didn't, even as he voted to renew it as a US Senator.    Then there wouldn't have been such a let down within his "base" when people learned the truth, that pretty much nothing vis-a-vis the Middle East was going to change.

Black Lives Matter
Muslim Lives Matter
There is no such thing as "illegals"
LGBT Lives Matter
Poor Women's Lives Matter

"If we jump too quickly to the universal formulation, 'all lives matter,' then we miss the fact that black people have not yet been included in the idea of 'all lives.'"

--Professor Judith Butler
Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  May 06, 2012 - 11:30PM #20
teilhard
Posts: 53,304

IOW, you think that Candidate Obama OUGHT to have been the already fully experienced PRESIDENT Obama, such that he KNEW Things BEFORE he knew them, and certainly that NONE of US knows even yet ... ??? Tricky ...


May 6, 2012 -- 10:57PM, rabello wrote:


May 6, 2012 -- 6:45PM, teilhard wrote:


What SHOULD have been done with those Gitmo Detainees ... ???  Really ... ???  Can they just be moved in with YOU in that spare Basement BedRoom ... ???  Why not ... ???




You should ask the guy you voted for, not me.  He's the one that said he'd close Gitmo without saying WHAT he had in mind for the detainees.


Obama should have told us his intention was merely to replace Gitmo in Cuba with a Gitmo in the US.  He should have told us he agreed with indefinite detention of suspects without evidence, charge or trial, or even a "not guilty" verdict.   He should have told us he would be "ending" the wars (actually military attacs/invasions/occupations) by using unmanned drones instead of armies. He should have told us he believed in the Unitary Executive prinicple that allows one man in the entire world, without any judicial oversight whatsoever, to order the execution of American citizens without trial or conviction.  He should have told us he agrees with "preemptive war" doctrine.  He should have told us he believes torture could be ordered by the Unitary Executive in rare cases.  He should have told us he actually supported/supports to Patriot Act, even though he said he didn't, even as he voted to renew it as a US Senator.    Then there wouldn't have been such a let down within his "base" when people learned the truth, that pretty much nothing vis-a-vis the Middle East was going to change.





Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 2 of 3  •  Prev 1 2 3 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook