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Switch to Forum Live View US Pastor Terry Jones Burns Qur'an Again
2 years ago  ::  May 31, 2012 - 1:46PM #61
TRUECHRISTIAN
Posts: 944

May 30, 2012 -- 6:05PM, Beautiful_Dreamer wrote:


Would you (generic 'you') want someone to burn Bibles just to put their 'opinions' of you and your religion in your face? No? Then don't do it to anyone else.


Again, 'you' here is generic-my point is to give other people the same consideration we'd want for ourselves.




No, but I would understand that if a Muslim was sentenced to death for being a Muslim then other Muslims might burn and american flag or a bible as a protest.  


It would not bother me one tiny little bit if a Muslim burned a Bible.  


But what would you do if someone burned a Bible? 


Would you threaten them with death?  


Would you threaten someone else who had nothing to do with burning of the Bible other than they were of the same nationality, ethincity or religion? 


Now all you fine Christians have condmened and questioned the motives of Pastor Terry but have not said nary a word of condmenation against the Muslims who have sentenced a Christian to death. 


Personally I think that sentencing a person to death for being a Christian is FAR MORE INSULTING TO THE 1.5 BILLION MUSLIMS AND TO THE RELIGION OF ISLAM.  Than the burning of the Quran.  


 


 




 

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2 years ago  ::  May 31, 2012 - 8:27PM #62
smcisaac
Posts: 7,891

Truechristian, you are a hard case.  As Paul said to the Corinthians, may the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you.  Seriously.  You could use another healthy dose of all three.

"Truth did not come into the world naked, but it came in types and images. The world will not receive truth in any other way."  Gospel of Philip, Logion 72

"Christ will regenerate all things; through Him all things will be purged, and return into eternal life. And when the Son shall deliver up the kingdom to the Father, all things will be God; that is, all things will still exist, but God will exist in them, and they will be full of Him." Fabius Manus Victorinus, c. 350 AD
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 02, 2012 - 9:44PM #63
Beautiful_Dreamer
Posts: 5,152

When she moved the thread here, Merope (my co-host) asked what we think about clergy (or anyone, really) burning other people's holy texts.  She did not mention anything else beyond that, so I did not answer anything else beyond that. Please do not assume facts not in evidence.

More where that came from...

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 08, 2012 - 4:26PM #64
TRUECHRISTIAN
Posts: 944

May 31, 2012 -- 8:27PM, smcisaac wrote:


Truechristian, you are a hard case.  As Paul said to the Corinthians, may the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you.  Seriously.  You could use another healthy dose of all three.





smcisaac


Thank you for your opinion on what you think. 


It is my love for God AND for me fellow Christians that I post as I do. 


It appears to me that those who "assume" that Pastor Terry's burning of the Quran, is due to his desire to be a "superstar", or that he is not or should not be called a "pastor"  or who "assume" that he is the "anti-christ" need the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit alot more than I do. 


I understand that neither you nor most other Christians, wether clergy or lay would not burn a Quran. However I also understand the reason that Pastor Terry  gave for burning the Quran. Ineffectual as it appears to be and I repeat, so far as I know, there have not been any deaths that have resulted from this ineffectual  act of protest. 


 What is "sacred" is what the Quran says and NOT THE PAPER AND INK. 


 

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 08, 2012 - 5:28PM #65
smcisaac
Posts: 7,891

Jun 8, 2012 -- 4:26PM, TRUECHRISTIAN wrote:


It is my love for God AND for me fellow Christians that I post as I do.




If that were true as true as you would like to believe, your words would express love and compassion, not only toward God and your fellow Christians, but even toward those who were very different from you, even toward the prodigal sons and the Samaritan women of our time.  Instead, your words drip with contempt, and you applaud the contemptuous bigotry of others. 


You and I may not hold the Qur'an to be sacred as Islam does, but burning something that is cherished by others merely to display your contempt for them is an expression of hate, not love.  And make no mistake, Jones is achieving nothing else except giving voice to his hatred. He is deliberately offending, not only a few cruel persecutors of Christians, but also  hundreds of millions of other people who have done nothing wrong.


If and to the extent that there really are Christians being persecuted or killed by some Muslims somewhere in the world because of Muslim misunderstanding of Christianity, burning the Qur'an does nothing to improve the lot of their Christian victims, but it most certainly exacerbates the persecutors' hostility to Christianity, and it also sows ill will toward Christianity among countless other Muslims who had no previous reason to resent us.  If your hope is that at least some of those Muslims might eventually convert to Christianity, or that other Christians will complete the work of the persecuted Christians who were frustrated by hostility from a few misguided Muslims in their efforts to witness the Good News of God's unconditional love and redemption for all people, then insulting the objects of your hope, rather than modeling God's unconditional love toward them in your own words and deeds, is a recipe for certain failure.


If you cannot see that, then you are blinded by hate for your brother, not inspired by love of God.  As both Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr. are reputed to have said, "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."

"Truth did not come into the world naked, but it came in types and images. The world will not receive truth in any other way."  Gospel of Philip, Logion 72

"Christ will regenerate all things; through Him all things will be purged, and return into eternal life. And when the Son shall deliver up the kingdom to the Father, all things will be God; that is, all things will still exist, but God will exist in them, and they will be full of Him." Fabius Manus Victorinus, c. 350 AD
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 11, 2012 - 11:56AM #66
TRUECHRISTIAN
Posts: 944

 


Jun 8, 2012 -- 4:26PM, TRUECHRISTIAN wrote:


It is my love for God AND for me fellow Christians that I post as I do.




Jun 8, 2012 -- 5:28PM, smcisaac wrote:



If that were true as true as you would like to believe, your words would express love and compassion, not only toward God and your fellow Christians, but even toward those who were very different from you, even toward the prodigal sons and the Samaritan women of our time.  Instead, your words drip with contempt, and you applaud the contemptuous bigotry of others. 



Unlike your words towards about the "anti-christ"-prodigal Pastor Terry which drip with love and compassion are completely free of contempt? 


Jun 8, 2012 -- 5:28PM, smcisaac wrote:


You and I may not hold the Qur'an to be sacred as Islam does, but burning something that is cherished by others merely to display your contempt for them is an expression of hate, not love.  And make no mistake, Jones is achieving nothing else except giving voice to his hatred.



I will repeat as many times as neccessary that it is the words in the Quran that Muslims hold sacred and not the ink and paper.  


I will repeat again my "contempt"  my "opposition" is not directed towards Muslims it is directed towards what those few cruel  Muslims persecutors  Iran have done in this case. 


Jun 8, 2012 -- 5:28PM, smcisaac wrote:


 He is deliberately offending, not only a few cruel persecutors of Christians, but also  hundreds of millions of other people who have done nothing wrong.



He is no more delibrately offending the 1.5 billion Muslims on the planet than the few cruel misguided Muslims in Iran are delibrately trying to offend the 2.2 billion Christians on the planet.


Personally I think burning a Quran is much less offensive than  sentencing a man to death for the crime.


  


Jun 8, 2012 -- 5:28PM, smcisaac wrote:


If and to the extent that there really are Christians being persecuted or killed by some Muslims somewhere in the world because of Muslim misunderstanding of Christianity,



If ? I think there is very, very,very, very little doubt that there are some Christians being killed by some Muslims. 


If Pastor Terry burned a Quran it is because of his "misunderstanding" of Christianity.  Which everybody(?) knows is the most tolerant and peaceful of all the Abrahamic religions.   


Or


If Pastor Terry burned a Quran it is because of his "misunderstanding" of Islam. 


To what extent and as to why some Muslims are killing some Christians but I have my doubts that the reason is because of a "misunderstanding" of Christianity.   What all Muslims understand is the Jesus was not, nor is not God.  What all Muslims do understand is the the gravest, the worst sin that a human being can commit is to ascribe "partners to God". 


 


 


  


Jun 8, 2012 -- 5:28PM, smcisaac wrote:


 burning the Qur'an does nothing to improve the lot of their Christian victims, but it most certainly exacerbates the persecutors' hostility to Christianity, and it also sows ill will toward Christianity among countless other Muslims who had no previous reason to resent us. 



I do agree that the burning of A Quran or Qurans,  will do nothing to improve the lot of the Christian victims of Muslims who misunderstand Christianity. IF there are some Christian victims who persecuted and killed by some Muslims and if it is because they "misunderstand" Christianity. 


I agree that the burning of a Quran, or to be more precise an English translation of THE Quran would sow hostility in some Muslims just as the persecution and killing of some Christians will and has sown resentment and hositlity in some Christians towards some or even all Muslims.


As I stated earlier I don't see any evidence that burning of a Quran has had any effect one those Muslims in Iran who are involved in the persecution of Christian pastor in Iran.  And so far as I know it has not caused any further persecution of Christians either in Iran or anywhere else. 


 


Jun 8, 2012 -- 5:28PM, smcisaac wrote:


 If your hope is that at least some of those Muslims might eventually convert to Christianity, or that other Christians will complete the work of the persecuted Christians who were frustrated by hostility from a few misguided Muslims in their efforts to witness the Good News of God's unconditional love and redemption for all people, then insulting the objects of your hope, rather than modeling God's some love toward them in your own words and deeds, is a recipe for certain failure.


If you cannot see that, then you are blinded by hate for your brother, not inspired by love of God.  As both Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr. are reputed to have said, "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."




I would hope that some of my Muslim brothers become my Christian brothers because if they do not then they will not be "redeemed".


What you are blind to is my repeated posts that I do not have hatred for my Muslim brothers.   What I do have hatred for is the actions of some of my Muslim brothers who are involved in the persecution of my Christian brothers. 


The "eye for an eye" does NOT APPLY IN THIS INSTANCE! 


I am not advocting that a Muslim be convicted for the "crime-sin" of being a Muslim and for trying to "convert-revert"  Christitians to Islam. 


I would also add that it is a "misunderstanding" of the "eye for an eye" to be taken "literally".

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 11, 2012 - 4:53PM #67
smcisaac
Posts: 7,891

Okay, so I'm not going to change your mind.  But even if Jones were giving a sound Christian witness, he is being a coward about it.   It's easy to burn a Qur'an in Florida, but it still doesn't accomplish anything.  If he wants to protest the Muslim clerics who are imprisoning Christians in Iran, let him act like one of the saints and go over there and burn one and let the chips fall where they may.  Then at least he would be expressing himself to the authorities who matter, in a way that matters.  Instead he's behaving like the cut-up in the back of the 5th grade classroom who makes disparaging comments about the teacher when her back is turned, but isn't willing to raise his hand.


"Truth did not come into the world naked, but it came in types and images. The world will not receive truth in any other way."  Gospel of Philip, Logion 72

"Christ will regenerate all things; through Him all things will be purged, and return into eternal life. And when the Son shall deliver up the kingdom to the Father, all things will be God; that is, all things will still exist, but God will exist in them, and they will be full of Him." Fabius Manus Victorinus, c. 350 AD
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 13, 2012 - 10:03AM #68
theinterpreter
Posts: 1,699

Apr 30, 2012 -- 10:40AM, mytmouse57 wrote:


I support free expression.


I support any person's right to publicly make an idiot of themselves. 


I would, however, love to see the look on Pastor Terry's face when his time comes to cross over, and Jesus introduces him to his good friend, Muhammed. 



Muhammed and his followers are the 7th head of the beast.
May God bless pastor Jones who is protesting Iran's arrest of a Christian pastor there. 

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 13, 2012 - 4:08PM #69
smcisaac
Posts: 7,891

Demonizing people who sincerely try to follow God in the best way they know how, just because their beliefs and scriptures do not match our own in all respects, is more likely to be a clue to the presence of the beast -- in either faith tradition.

"Truth did not come into the world naked, but it came in types and images. The world will not receive truth in any other way."  Gospel of Philip, Logion 72

"Christ will regenerate all things; through Him all things will be purged, and return into eternal life. And when the Son shall deliver up the kingdom to the Father, all things will be God; that is, all things will still exist, but God will exist in them, and they will be full of Him." Fabius Manus Victorinus, c. 350 AD
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2012 - 8:36PM #70
theinterpreter
Posts: 1,699

Muslims are also killing Christians in Nigeria (committing religious genocide), yet no one does anthing or even reports it. 

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