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Switch to Forum Live View US Pastor Terry Jones Burns Qur'an Again
2 years ago  ::  May 22, 2012 - 3:04PM #51
jesusfreakgal
Posts: 938

I think it is possible what this pastor has done could endanger the life of this man, and possibly the lives of Christians and/ or americans all over the world. Part of me says we should ignore it, but part of me says that people like this, especially if part of the reason they are doing such a thing is for fame, would probably try whatever he/ she could to let people know what they did, such as video record it, and put it on a blog and youtube and other sites until someone sees it and starts telling others about it and so forth. Or he may actually believe this is the only way to stop the 'injustice' of the man's impending excecution (which I disagree), and is what any good Christian would do. I wouldn't want to  confront this man (that is not a Christ like thing to do anyway), in fear that he would judge me or be excremely harsh and cruel (he might not be that way though, I can't say). Aside from that, aside from times where me might offend or hurt a non Christian where it has nothing to do with us being Christian, and actually doing true service for God/ what God truly wishes for us and what not, we should be attempting to never insult, hurt or offend anyone for any reason.


JFG

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2 years ago  ::  May 22, 2012 - 9:40PM #52
Beautiful_Dreamer
Posts: 5,163

Honestly, I think it is rather tasteless and childish to burn other religions' holy texts just to piss them off...which is pretty much what this amounts to. 'Quran burnings' like this say nothing about Muslims, Iran, etc and everything about Terry Jones and whoever (if anyone) is going along with this stunt. Also, while I wouldn't appreciate it if someone burned a bunch of Bibles and said nasty things about Christians (actually, the latter happens quite a bit on Bnet), I figure God can deal with those things on His own without me having to start a riot over it.

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2 years ago  ::  May 23, 2012 - 1:43PM #53
Ironhold
Posts: 11,556

May 22, 2012 -- 9:40PM, Beautiful_Dreamer wrote:


Honestly, I think it is rather tasteless and childish to burn other religions' holy texts just to piss them off...which is pretty much what this amounts to. 'Quran burnings' like this say nothing about Muslims, Iran, etc and everything about Terry Jones and whoever (if anyone) is going along with this stunt. Also, while I wouldn't appreciate it if someone burned a bunch of Bibles and said nasty things about Christians (actually, the latter happens quite a bit on Bnet), I figure God can deal with those things on His own without me having to start a riot over it.




It's all about the shock value.


For example, a lot of the "Good Christian" street preachers who protest outside of Mormon facilities think it's funny to tie a string to a Book of Mormon and drag it on the ground or wear (potentially stolen) temple garments around their necks like towels.


A few go so far as to openly desecrate said garments, such as a guy who pretended to wipe himself in public with a pair.


All it does is make them seem like tools and the people they're targeting seem comparitively rational.

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2 years ago  ::  May 27, 2012 - 11:05PM #54
TRUECHRISTIAN
Posts: 1,250

The reason Pastor Terry gave for burning the Quran was because another christian Mr Nadarkhani faces execution for being a christian. 


www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/sep/27...


Now I doubt very much wether the burning of the Quran is going to have any effect whatsoever on what is going to happen to Mr Nadarkhani.


If anyone does die as a result of the burning of the Quran it is the responsiblity of those who are committing the violence.   To blame Pastor Terry is complete and absolute bullshit.  


It is a legimate form of free speech.  Wether you are burning the flag, the bible, or dragging the bookof mormon on the ground.  

I could be wrong.
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2 years ago  ::  May 28, 2012 - 12:35AM #55
smcisaac
Posts: 7,990

Two wrongs don't make a right, no matter who wrongs first.  That it's free speech is irrelevant.


It's stupid and hateful to deliberately do something that you know is offensive to someone else.  Especially if it's gravely offensive to their religion.  Especially if your only purpose is to express hatred.  Answering even your enemies with love, concern, and respect, rather than hatred and contempt, is what Jesus taught.  What Terry (he doesn't deserve the title "Pastor") does is not Christian; it is in fact antichrist.

"Truth did not come into the world naked, but it came in types and images. The world will not receive truth in any other way."  Gospel of Philip, Logion 72

"Christ will regenerate all things; through Him all things will be purged, and return into eternal life. And when the Son shall deliver up the kingdom to the Father, all things will be God; that is, all things will still exist, but God will exist in them, and they will be full of Him." Fabius Manus Victorinus, c. 350 AD
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2 years ago  ::  May 28, 2012 - 10:49PM #56
TRUECHRISTIAN
Posts: 1,250

May 28, 2012 -- 12:35AM, smcisaac wrote:


Two wrongs don't make a right, no matter who wrongs first.  That it's free speech is irrelevant.


It's stupid and hateful to deliberately do something that you know is offensive to someone else.  Especially if it's gravely offensive to their religion.  Especially if your only purpose is to express hatred.  Answering even your enemies with love, concern, and respect, rather than hatred and contempt, is what Jesus taught.  What Terry (he doesn't deserve the title "Pastor") does is not Christian; it is in fact antichrist.




I disagree that the burning of the Quran in this case is "wrong".  


Now it "may" be stupid to burn the Quran because it will have no bearing on the outcome of the case Mr Nadarkhani.


I agree that Pastor Terry hates the evil persecution of a Christian in Iran by Muslims. 


It is the sin that Pastor Terry hates and not the sinners i.e. those Muslims in Iran who have sentenced Mr Nadarkhani to death for the sin of free speech, the evangelising of the true religion.


While I or Pastor Terry or any other christian maybe compelled to have a concern for a love and respect for enemies I do not think that extends the oppression of Christianns, nor to the religion of Islam or to the Quran.  


I do not think that I or any other Christian should "respect" a book, that denies fundamental doctrines and dogmas of Chrisitanity.  


The Quran explictly denies the Jesus is God. 


The Quran expliclty denies that Jesus was even crucified. 


The Quran  explictly states that both the Old and New Testaments are "corrupted".  


The Quran explictly states that all the Prophets in the Bible INCLUDING JESUS were MUSLIMS!


Now you may believe that you are bound to respect the Quran, but I do not.  


 


 



 




 

I could be wrong.
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2 years ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 4:01AM #57
smcisaac
Posts: 7,990

And what does Jesus say about that?


"Blessed are the merciful, for they will receive mercy.


"Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.


"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.


"Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.


"Blessed are you when people revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. ...


 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, Do not resist an evildoer. But if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also; and if anyone wants to sue you and take your coat, give your cloak as well; and if anyone forces you to go one mile, go also the second mile. Give to everyone who begs from you, and do not refuse anyone who wants to borrow from you.


"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be children of your Father in heaven.  For he makes his sun rise on both the evil and on the good, and sends his rain on both the righteous and on the unrighteous. For if you love only those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax-collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers and sisters, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the pagans do the same? Be perfect, instead, in the same way that your heavenly Father is perfect. ...


"A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will know them by their fruits. Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord', will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only those who do the will of my Father in heaven."

"Truth did not come into the world naked, but it came in types and images. The world will not receive truth in any other way."  Gospel of Philip, Logion 72

"Christ will regenerate all things; through Him all things will be purged, and return into eternal life. And when the Son shall deliver up the kingdom to the Father, all things will be God; that is, all things will still exist, but God will exist in them, and they will be full of Him." Fabius Manus Victorinus, c. 350 AD
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2 years ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 4:17AM #58
smcisaac
Posts: 7,990

May 28, 2012 -- 10:49PM, TRUECHRISTIAN wrote:


The Quran explictly states that all the Prophets in the Bible INCLUDING JESUS were MUSLIMS!




And indeed, they were.  (Do you even know what the definition of 'Muslim' is?  It is one who voluntarily submits to God.  It is only because Muhammad claimed to be a prophet who received a new revelation from God in the Qur'an, which Jews and Christians do not recognize as an authentic revelation, that after Muhammad 'Muslims' were differentiated from followers of the other Abrahamic faiths. Before Muhammad all monotheistic believers were Muslims in the broad sense of the word.)


How much do you really know about the Qur'an and the people who cherish it that you would so eagerly and categorically express your contempt for them?  How much do you really know about the love of God and of Christ that you would?


Obviously, Christians do not take the Qur'an as scripture, and therefore do not agree with some of the 'new' things it 'reveals' about God and about Jesus.  But disagreement does not justify contempt and disrespect.  Is deliberately insulting and provoking millions of others, by burning their holy book, in retribution for a a perceived offense by only one or a few of them against only one Christian, the kind of behavior that Jesus practiced or taught?  Is it the kind of behavior that redeems sinners or reconciles enemies or quells fear and resentment?  Is it grace?


Do you also think God approved of the Crusades?

"Truth did not come into the world naked, but it came in types and images. The world will not receive truth in any other way."  Gospel of Philip, Logion 72

"Christ will regenerate all things; through Him all things will be purged, and return into eternal life. And when the Son shall deliver up the kingdom to the Father, all things will be God; that is, all things will still exist, but God will exist in them, and they will be full of Him." Fabius Manus Victorinus, c. 350 AD
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2 years ago  ::  May 30, 2012 - 6:05PM #59
Beautiful_Dreamer
Posts: 5,163

Would you (generic 'you') want someone to burn Bibles just to put their 'opinions' of you and your religion in your face? No? Then don't do it to anyone else.


Again, 'you' here is generic-my point is to give other people the same consideration we'd want for ourselves.

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2 years ago  ::  May 31, 2012 - 1:32PM #60
TRUECHRISTIAN
Posts: 1,250

"And indeed, they were.  (Do you even know what the definition of 'Muslim' is?  It is one who voluntarily submits to God.  It is only because Muhammad claimed to be a prophet who received a new revelation from God in the Qur'an, which Jews and Christians do not recognize as an authentic revelation, that after Muhammad 'Muslims' were differentiated from followers of the other Abrahamic faiths. Before Muhammad all monotheistic believers were Muslims in the broad sense of the word.)"


Indeed they were NOT.  The "definatition" of the word "muslim"  is one who submits to God.  There is nothing in the "defination" about "voluntary".  


Now Muhammad can "claim" he was "prophet" and he can "claim" that he was receiving "revelations" and "Muslims" can "believe" it.  


However as a Christian it would be my understanding that MUHAMMAD IS A FALSE PROPHET. 


And the fact that the Quran denies core priniciples of of Christianity that would lead me to "believe" that it is not just an inauthentic revelation BUT A FALSE REVELATION. 


Since it was Muhammad who "claimed" that core beliefs of the true religion are false then that would make MUHAMMAD THE ANTI-CHRIST.


Since Christians still believe that they are obeying God then in the "broad" sense of the word YOU ARE A MUSLIM AND ALL MONOTHEIST, are Muslims. If they believe that they are obeying God. 


In the "broad"  sense I could say that since Abraham was was Jewish, and since Christians and Muslims believe that Abraham was a Prophet then Christians and Muslims are Jewish. 


 


Muslims believe that Jesus was a Prophet of Islam.   But it would be a real streach to say they are Christians.  


"How much do you really know about the Qur'an and the people who cherish it that you would so eagerly and categorically express your contempt for them?"


How much do you "really" know about the Quran? 


Have you ever read the entire Quran? 


Because I have read the entire Quran. 


What I do know about Muslims is that there are good Muslims and there are bad Muslims. 


What the burning of the Quran is, is an expression of contempt for what the bad Muslims have done by sentencing a Christian to death for being a Chrisitan. 


 


"Obviously, Christians do not take the Qur'an as scripture, and therefore do not agree with some of the 'new' things it 'reveals' about God and about Jesus. "


Obviously, Christians do not take the Qur'an as scripture, and therefore do not agree with some of the 'FALSE' things it 'reveals' about God and about Jesus.


"But disagreement does not justify contempt and disrespect."


But sentencing a man to death for his religious beliefs, even if they are "new" or "false"  does justify contempt and disrespect not only for the actions but for the people responsible for those actions.


"Do you also think God approved of the Crusades?"


Do you think that God approved of the Muslim Conquest of Jersursalem and the Holy Land? 


I repeat, so far as I am aware not one single person has been killed as a result of the latest burning of the Quran.   


So it would appear to me that the 1.5 billion Muslims have been able to pass the test of this latest insult to their false religion and false scripture.  


Do you think God would approve of saying that Pastor Terry is the anti-christ? 


 


 


 

I could be wrong.
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