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2 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 12:31PM #1
Roodog
Posts: 10,168
finance.yahoo.com/news/jailed-for--280--...

This is truely frightening in hard economic times like these.
 As though our prison population is not overcrowded already.

There is an old, grim joke which goes like this:
What happens when your assets don't cover your deficits?
Your assets in jail.
For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 1:32PM #2
mountain_man
Posts: 39,687

Apr 29, 2012 -- 12:31PM, Roodog wrote:

This is truely frightening in hard economic times like these.


For fraud, sure, lock them up. Failure to pay for legitimate medical expenses or for other non fraud instances, prison is not the answer. Locking someone up at the cost of around $100/day for a few years doesn't get the bill paid and wastes money. Change the bankruptcy laws back to where they were before the Regressives made it easier for a business with millions in debt to file than it is for a regular person.


Hey.... there's an idea... Corporations want to be treated like people so let's do just that. If a corporation cannot pay it's bills the CEO and the CFO go to prison.


As though our prison population is not overcrowded already.


In Regressive states those prisons bring in money. There is profit in prisons. It's a big industry here in California.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 4:34PM #3
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Apr 29, 2012 -- 1:32PM, mountain_man wrote:


Apr 29, 2012 -- 12:31PM, Roodog wrote:

This is truely frightening in hard economic times like these.


For fraud, sure, lock them up. Failure to pay for legitimate medical expenses or for other non fraud instances, prison is not the answer. Locking someone up at the cost of around $100/day for a few years doesn't get the bill paid and wastes money. Change the bankruptcy laws back to where they were before the Regressives made it easier for a business with millions in debt to file than it is for a regular person.


Hey.... there's an idea... Corporations want to be treated like people so let's do just that. If a corporation cannot pay it's bills the CEO and the CFO go to prison.


As though our prison population is not overcrowded already.


In Regressive states those prisons bring in money. There is profit in prisons. It's a big industry here in California.





Many States have a privatized, for profit penal system. This is indeed a frightening trend because while Government instiutions have to abide by Constitutional restraints, it is not neccessarily  the case of private institutions. The possibility of abuse of the inmates is too great for my liking.


I wonder when States will allow for people being arrested for being unemployed like in 14th Century England.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 6:55PM #4
mountain_man
Posts: 39,687

Apr 29, 2012 -- 4:34PM, Roodog wrote:

Many States have a privatized, for profit penal system. This is indeed a frightening trend because while Government instiutions have to abide by Constitutional restraints, it is not neccessarily  the case of private institutions. The possibility of abuse of the inmates is too great for my liking.


The private prisons in Florida have been in the news lately for such abuse.


I wonder when States will allow for people being arrested for being unemployed like in 14th Century England.


Or 20th Century Albania. It seems that mistreating our fellow human beings has become the way to solve problems. A few realize that that won't work.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 8:17PM #5
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Apr 29, 2012 -- 6:55PM, mountain_man wrote:


Apr 29, 2012 -- 4:34PM, Roodog wrote:

Many States have a privatized, for profit penal system. This is indeed a frightening trend because while Government instiutions have to abide by Constitutional restraints, it is not neccessarily  the case of private institutions. The possibility of abuse of the inmates is too great for my liking.


The private prisons in Florida have been in the news lately for such abuse.


I wonder when States will allow for people being arrested for being unemployed like in 14th Century England.


Or 20th Century Albania. It seems that mistreating our fellow human beings has become the way to solve problems. A few realize that that won't work.





I wonder that someday unsubmissive workers may be arrested for mutiny or petty treason. Most likely it won't go that far.


 I do not like the increasing control of employees by their employers. Workers' rights appear to be under attack in this country.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 10:37PM #6
mountain_man
Posts: 39,687

Apr 29, 2012 -- 8:17PM, Roodog wrote:

I wonder that someday unsubmissive workers may be arrested for mutiny or petty treason. Most likely it won't go that far.


That's exactly what they did when unions were first getting started. They could be arrested for striking if they were lucky. Usually the company just paid some goons to beat them up or kill them. It was not uncommon for union organizers to be murdered.


I do not like the increasing control of employees by their employers. Workers' rights appear to be under attack in this country.


The Regressives do. Worker's rights are seen as an undue burden on business.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 11:31PM #7
Ironhold
Posts: 11,548

Apr 29, 2012 -- 10:37PM, mountain_man wrote:


It was not uncommon for union organizers to be murdered.



You mean like how it's not uncommon for union members to harrass, intimidate, or even attack co-workers who don't toe the line?


Neither side of the dispute is entirely innocent, here.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 12:34AM #8
mountain_man
Posts: 39,687

Apr 29, 2012 -- 11:31PM, Ironhold wrote:

You mean like how it's not uncommon for union members to harrass, intimidate, or even attack co-workers who don't toe the line?


You mean how they treat dirty scabs that are trying to take away your job? What you are bringing up rarely happens. Employer intimidation and violence is far more common.


Neither side of the dispute is entirely innocent, here.


That's like comparing Hiroshima to a fire cracker. Sure, both blew something up, but one is far worse than the other. Regressives these days see labor unions as a "hot bed" of democracy and dreaded Liberals. They are doing all they can to get rid of them. States that have enacted these Regressive "right to work" laws have proven they are actually the "right to work for less laws." In those states the average salary, already low, has gone even lower.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 12:45AM #9
Ironhold
Posts: 11,548

Apr 30, 2012 -- 12:34AM, mountain_man wrote:


Apr 29, 2012 -- 11:31PM, Ironhold wrote:

You mean like how it's not uncommon for union members to harrass, intimidate, or even attack co-workers who don't toe the line?


You mean how they treat dirty scabs that are trying to take away your job? What you are bringing up rarely happens. Employer intimidation and violence is far more common.


Neither side of the dispute is entirely innocent, here.


That's like comparing Hiroshima to a fire cracker. Sure, both blew something up, but one is far worse than the other. Regressives these days see labor unions as a "hot bed" of democracy and dreaded Liberals. They are doing all they can to get rid of them. States that have enacted these Regressive "right to work" laws have proven they are actually the "right to work for less laws." In those states the average salary, already low, has gone even lower.



As one of the "regressives" you so openly mock?


The problem with Big Labor in America is that a lot of the individual unions have effectively priced themselves out of the game via excessive demands and corruption / incompetence at the top tiers.


Thus, the current spate of legislation.


The idea is to give individual workers the right to opt out of any labor union who they feel does not adequately represent them or their ideals, no strings attached.


Yes, there are often strings attached for non-membership.


For example, let's take a look at New Jersey. Last month, Gov. Christie noted that full-time teachers at a school unionized under the NJEA must still pay annual dues even if they themselves aren't a member; they merely pay $647 / year instead of $731 / year.


In that sense, I think you can understand why some people get so upset when unions use their dues monies to pay for lobbying and political ads: not everyone who pays dues into a union is an actual union member, and so their money might well be used to support things the individuals don't necessarily agree with.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 3:31AM #10
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

What  I see and note with concern is that poverty will be criminalized thereby justifying the disenfranchisement of the poor and the forcible "employment" of the chronicly unemployed in 21st century versions of the workhouse and labor camp with the caption over the gate:


"Work Shall Make You Free"


Lest you think that poverty will not be outlawed, let me refer you to almost 600 years of English History where the poor was, at times, persecuted like a despised sect.


Prosperity Theology, although proven to be bogus, has at times stated that being poor is a sin. Being declared a sin is a usual step toward criminalization.


 

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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