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2 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 10:18PM #31
Nepenthe
Posts: 2,720

Apr 28, 2012 -- 9:52PM, teilhard wrote:


But ... again ... Was a "White Flag" waved by anyone ... ??? No ...  Did anyone step out with Hands raised ... ???  No ... More to the point, did Osama bin Laden ever during the last DECADE go to the Embassy of his Choice (Iran ... ???  Syria ... ???  China ... ???  North Korea ... ???) and surrender to Authorities ... ???  No ...



 


Surrendering with a "white flag" would have only brought about his death sooner.  It was, without any doubt, shoot on sight.  And considering the conduct of the United States over the past decade, why would Bin Laden surrender himself when he would never see the inside a courtroom, ever?  There is no way either President Bush or President Obama would bring about a trial for Bin Laden.


Apr 28, 2012 -- 9:52PM, teilhard wrote:

And ... also, again ... It remains a bit nuddled as to whether the Anti-Terror Effort is a "War" or a "Criminal Justice" Situation ...  (In a WAR, an Enemy Combatant ISN'T "Mirandized" after a Magistate  issues a Warrant ...)




No, in a war an enemy combatant is not mirandized, they are hopefully treated as per the requirements laid out in the Geneva Convention, which one would expect a "civilized" nation to do. 


However, I am really starting to believe that you do not wish the United States to conduct itself in any morally superior way than those we fight.  Sure, you will reference, yet again, 9/11/2001, and the horrible things these horrible people did, while completing ignoring that we have, intentionally, created a 9/11/2001 in Iraq once a month for almost 10 years.

Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 10:29PM #32
teilhard
Posts: 51,365

The United States and Allied Nations are entirely properly and legally exercising their Right of Self Defense, as recognized in International Law and in Common Law ...


The FACT that Osama bin Laden and al Qaida CHOSE to carry out Terrorist Actions as they did and CHOSE not to surrender to proper Authorities was and is THEIR Problem ...


The "Iraq" Question is a SEPARATE Question, isn't it ... ???


Apr 28, 2012 -- 10:18PM, Nepenthe wrote:


Apr 28, 2012 -- 9:52PM, teilhard wrote:


But ... again ... Was a "White Flag" waved by anyone ... ??? No ...  Did anyone step out with Hands raised ... ???  No ... More to the point, did Osama bin Laden ever during the last DECADE go to the Embassy of his Choice (Iran ... ???  Syria ... ???  China ... ???  North Korea ... ???) and surrender to Authorities ... ???  No ...



 


Surrendering with a "white flag" would have only brought about his death sooner.  It was, without any doubt, shoot on sight.  And considering the conduct of the United States over the past decade, why would Bin Laden surrender himself when he would never see the inside a courtroom, ever?  There is no way either President Bush or President Obama would bring about a trial for Bin Laden.


Apr 28, 2012 -- 9:52PM, teilhard wrote:

And ... also, again ... It remains a bit nuddled as to whether the Anti-Terror Effort is a "War" or a "Criminal Justice" Situation ...  (In a WAR, an Enemy Combatant ISN'T "Mirandized" after a Magistate  issues a Warrant ...)




No, in a war an enemy combatant is not mirandized, they are hopefully treated as per the requirements laid out in the Geneva Convention, which one would expect a "civilized" nation to do. 


However, I am really starting to believe that you do not wish the United States to conduct itself in any morally superior way than those we fight.  Sure, you will reference, yet again, 9/11/2001, and the horrible things these horrible people did, while completing ignoring that we have, intentionally, created a 9/11/2001 in Iraq once a month for almost 10 years.





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2 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 9:27AM #33
Unworthyone
Posts: 2,937

I know this ... GW Bush made a big deal out of the fact that there had not been any  9/11 type attacks on American soil on his watch ... except that first one.  Was he wrong to politicize his fabulous homeland security record?


As I recall, GW stood on the rubble of ground zero and vowed that we would 'come after' those responsible. Obama simply made good on GW's promise.  Why shouldn't he tout this accomplishment?

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 9:51AM #34
teilhard
Posts: 51,365

And in Fact, President "Dubya" for several YEARS almost entirely neglected going seriously after Osama bin Laden and al Qaida in favor of re-doing Iraq ...


Apr 29, 2012 -- 9:27AM, Unworthyone wrote:


I know this ... GW Bush made a big deal out of the fact that there had not been any  9/11 type attacks on American soil on his watch ... except that first one.  Was he wrong to politicize his fabulous homeland security record?


As I recall, GW stood on the rubble of ground zero and vowed that we would 'come after' those responsible. Obama simply made good on GW's promise.  Why shouldn't he tout this accomplishment?





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2 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 10:01AM #35
Marcion
Posts: 2,883

Give Obama his due, he eliminated Bin Laden; something Mr Kept us Safe failed to do. Sometimes revenge is good.


That doesn't mean I will vote for him again, fool me once is enough.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 1:04PM #36
catboxer
Posts: 14,012

A legal bin Laden trial, with full press coverage, showing testimony by relevant witnesses including the defendant, would have been the perfect medium for the US to re-assert its national and international dignity.


At this point it looks like the US has no dignity left to re-assert.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 5:15PM #37
teilhard
Posts: 51,365

So you AGREE with me that it IS unfortunate that Osama bin Laden CHOSE his Fate by NOT turning himelf over to an Embassy of The Authority of HIS Choice (North Korea ... ???  China ... ??? Pakistan ... ???  Syria ... ???  Libya ... ???) ...


Apr 29, 2012 -- 1:04PM, catboxer wrote:


A legal bin Laden trial, with full press coverage, showing testimony by relevant witnesses including the defendant, would have been the perfect medium for the US to re-assert its national and international dignity.


At this point it looks like the US has no dignity left to re-assert.





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2 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 5:46PM #38
rabello
Posts: 21,641

Apr 29, 2012 -- 1:04PM, catboxer wrote:


A legal bin Laden trial, with full press coverage, showing testimony by relevant witnesses including the defendant, would have been the perfect medium for the US to re-assert its national and international dignity.


At this point it looks like the US has no dignity left to re-assert.




Our dignity lies in the corporate branding on drone weapons and the old fashioned waterboard.


Maybe a whole lotta graves, too, although we "over here" will never know about those.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 6:19PM #39
teilhard
Posts: 51,365

Nor will The al Qaida Guys ever bother to pay THEIR Respect at the Graves "over here" of innocent Persons they have murdered ...


Apr 29, 2012 -- 5:46PM, rabello wrote:


Apr 29, 2012 -- 1:04PM, catboxer wrote:


A legal bin Laden trial, with full press coverage, showing testimony by relevant witnesses including the defendant, would have been the perfect medium for the US to re-assert its national and international dignity.


At this point it looks like the US has no dignity left to re-assert.




Our dignity lies in the corporate branding on drone weapons and the old fashioned waterboard.


Maybe a whole lotta graves, too, although we "over here" will never know about those.





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2 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 7:13AM #40
Nepenthe
Posts: 2,720

Apr 28, 2012 -- 10:29PM, teilhard wrote:

The United States and Allied Nations are entirely properly and legally exercising their Right of Self Defense, as recognized in International Law and in Common Law ...




There is currently no operation the United States is publicly involved with that deals with self-defense.  The operational effectiveness of AQ was destroyed years ago, and we currently out number the remaining AQ members in that region 1000-1.

Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends.
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