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3 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 6:09PM #131
Idbc
Posts: 4,597

 


"Howdy" Rabello


Apr 27, 2012 -- 1:11PM, rabello wrote:


I think you have a strange notion, there, of "industry" and ways to increase or maintain "employment".   I don't see the seasonal clubbing baby seals to death as an "industry" any more than I see the seasonal macerating dolphins with spears as an "industry", nor engaging in such needless, brutal practices as "employment".  



Wether you consider the notion to strange, or brutal or unneccessary does not change the fact that it is an industry, it is a business, and it does employ people.  


 


 


Apr 27, 2012 -- 1:11PM, rabello wrote:


  I do think there can be and should be a "middle ground" when it comes to the natural earth and the "industry" that humans are bound and determined to get rich from, though, not an either/or proposition.



I do think that there can be a "middle ground" when it comes to exploiting the natural resources of the earth even to get get rich in the process.   It is not a matter of getting "rich" or NOT getting "rich'. 



Apr 27, 2012 -- 1:11PM, rabello wrote:


People from around the world journey to the upper reaches of Canada every year to put themselves between the hunter and the hunted, just like people from around the world are now journeying to Japan to try to stop the massacres, so it would appear that these things are more than just the business of Canadian or Japanese profit-seekers.  




What is would appear is that these people ARE MORALLY SUPERIOR.  


It would appear that they are MORE SUPERIOR MORALLY then humans who are against the brutal, profit making murder and genocide of baby seals than those who are also opposed but are not willing to put themselves between the hunted and the hunter.  


It would appear that they are FAR FAR  SUPERIOR MORALLY than humans who profit from the  brutal,  murder and genocide of baby seals and those who carry it out and those who aid and abet the brutal mass murder and attempted genocide of baby seals.   The Canadian gov't is complict in the brutal genocide.  


It would also appear to me that those BRAVE, HERORIC AND MORALLY SUPERIOR human beings who spend their own money and time to stop the brutal, murderous, genocidal business-industry clearly see it as a BLACK industry, see NO WHITE, or NO GRAY.    .    


Morally and biologically speaking: yes all of life is morally equal and human beings are not morally superior.


Apr 27, 2012 -- 1:11PM, rabello wrote:


I would also say, as an aside, the human beings have proven they are not morally superior to anything at all, the way we lie and manipulate, tolerate injustice and brutality -- even against other human beings, act brutally and start wars just because we can.



It would appear that per the above human beings are morally inferior to all other species of animals.   It would appear that human beings are not only "not white-morally superior"  they are not even "gray".   It would appear that because the "the way we lie and manipulate, tolerate injustice and brutality -- even against other human beings, act brutally and start wars just because we can"  HUMANS ARE BLACK, BLACK, BLACK".  


So maybe a "tiny minorty"  aren't BLACK, BLACK, BLACK.  


And perhaps a "moderate" amount a GRAY, GRAY, GRAY. 


And maybe another "tiny minority are BLACK, BLACK, BLACK. 


 




 

HAVE A THINKING DAY MAY REASON GUIDE YOU
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 6:22PM #132
solfeggio
Posts: 9,462

Yes, it is a 'black' industry without any shades of gray. 


And yes, anybody who goes to the considerable trouble of paying good money to take him/herself up to Canada, pay for food and lodging and transportation whilst there, and put him/herself in harm's way to protest the killing of baby seals - that person is, indeed, morally superior to those who just talk about the injustice of it all but do nothing beyond that.


Those who at least try to do some good in this world are morally superior to those who don't even make the effort.


Because taking an innocent life for no good reason is immoral.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 12:29AM #133
rabello
Posts: 22,022

Apr 27, 2012 -- 6:09PM, Idbc wrote:


the fact that it is an industry, it is a business, and it does employ people.  




It is a way for some people to make money, same way poaching is a way for some people to make money


 

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 12:34AM #134
teilhard
Posts: 51,780

In my first Parish -- in NorthEastern Minnesota -- a fair Number of my Congregants hunted, fished (and, sometimes "poached") and gathered NOT to earn extra $$$ but for Subsistence ... I never felt that I was in ANY Position to JUDGE them ...


Apr 28, 2012 -- 12:29AM, rabello wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 6:09PM, Idbc wrote:


the fact that it is an industry, it is a business, and it does employ people.  




It is a way for some people to make money, same way poaching is a way for some people to make money


 





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3 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 1:23AM #135
solfeggio
Posts: 9,462

Well, teilhard -


Killing for sustenance might have worked in the days of the frontier, but it is simply not a good excuse for hunting today. 


I cannot believe that there aren't any supermarkets or even just little ol' grocery stores in northern parts of the states.  After all, no matter how small the town, if there's a church, there must be at least a main street,a pub or two, a school, and, one presumes, a grocery store.  And, if not, then there would be one in the nearest big town.


What is the big deal if somebody has to drive his pick-up truck a few miles to load up on groceries?  He'd probably be doing some driving to the place where he planned to hunt, after all.


And there is the fact that a bag of potatoes, onions, apples, rice, etc. costs less in the long run and lasts far longer than the carcase of the deer or pheasant or whatever the hunter killed.


People hunt because they like to kill, pure and simple.


And, if you personally have a problem with killing for pleasure, you have every right to judge such people.


Also, as their spiritual leader, you have every right to talk to them about killing for pleasure and how it is morally wrong.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 1:31AM #136
rabello
Posts: 22,022

Apr 28, 2012 -- 12:34AM, teilhard wrote:


In my first Parish -- in NorthEastern Minnesota -- a fair Number of my Congregants hunted, fished (and, sometimes "poached") and gathered NOT to earn extra $$$ but for Subsistence ... I never felt that I was in ANY Position to JUDGE them ...




Well.....that is NOT what's going on with the seasonal slaughter of baby seals...not with the seasonal slaughter of dolphins, either.  


It is not an "industry", there is no employer who pays these people an hourly wage or a negotiated salary to go out and pound a juvenile seal in the head to death so as not to damage the fur, just as there is no employer who pays dolphin killers to do it, just as there is no employer to pay the killers of elephants, rhino's, mountain gorillas, siberian tigers, and other endangered species that get poached for their bodies or parts of their bodies, not for food.  They are not "employees"  -- they are people taking an opportunity, unholy as it is, to obtain filthy lucre.  What they do is a "business" -- with that, I will agree. But they are not employees and it is not an "industry".


Judge/smudge......It's not about them, it's about the seals -- and the dolphins, and the gorillas, and the tigers, and the manatees, and the spotted owl, and the .......


How do you think change happens if it isn't for good "men" doing something?


 

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 9:30AM #137
teilhard
Posts: 51,780

LOL ... You don't "get" it ... My (former) Congregants didn't hunt, fish (and occasionally, "poach") and gather for sake of Convenience, but for SUBSISTENCE, i.e., to LIVE ...


The increasing Population of Wild Cougars in northern Minnesota ALSO lives-off-the-Land NOT because it is more "Convenent" than going to the Store for Cans of Cat Food, but because THAT is HOW they GET their FOOD for SURVIVAL ...


Apr 28, 2012 -- 1:23AM, solfeggio wrote:


Well, teilhard -


Killing for sustenance might have worked in the days of the frontier, but it is simply not a good excuse for hunting today. 


I cannot believe that there aren't any supermarkets or even just little ol' grocery stores in northern parts of the states.  After all, no matter how small the town, if there's a church, there must be at least a main street,a pub or two, a school, and, one presumes, a grocery store.  And, if not, then there would be one in the nearest big town.


What is the big deal if somebody has to drive his pick-up truck a few miles to load up on groceries?  He'd probably be doing some driving to the place where he planned to hunt, after all.


And there is the fact that a bag of potatoes, onions, apples, rice, etc. costs less in the long run and lasts far longer than the carcase of the deer or pheasant or whatever the hunter killed.


People hunt because they like to kill, pure and simple.


And, if you personally have a problem with killing for pleasure, you have every right to judge such people.


Also, as their spiritual leader, you have every right to talk to them about killing for pleasure and how it is morally wrong.





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3 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 1:36PM #138
rabello
Posts: 22,022

Your (former) Congregants were cougars??? 

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 2:54PM #139
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,549

Apr 28, 2012 -- 12:29AM, rabello wrote:


Apr 27, 2012 -- 6:09PM, Idbc wrote:


the fact that it is an industry, it is a business, and it does employ people.  




It is a way for some people to make money, same way poaching is a way for some people to make money


 




Yes and to support their families...

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 5:31PM #140
teilhard
Posts: 51,780

No ... But LIKE Wild Cougars, not a few of them lived in The Outback North Woods and didn't HAVE enough $$$ to BUY all the Food they needed ... So they hunted, fished (occasionaly, "poached") and gathered to get FOOD ...


NOT everybody in North America is Rollin-in-Dollars, you see ...


Apr 28, 2012 -- 1:36PM, rabello wrote:


Your (former) Congregants were cougars??? 





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