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2 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 7:47PM #161
rabello
Posts: 21,692

Apr 28, 2012 -- 7:23PM, solfeggio wrote:


teilhard -


You protest that some of us don't 'get' it.  Oh, we get it, all right, more's the pity. 


Unlike many people who focus on the irrelevant details and fail to understand the principles involved, we see the big picture all too clearly.


 




Well said, solfeggio.  Thanks for the care2 link.  I once saw a video of the slaughter, in real time, which showed not only the bloodstained ice, but a pup that looked just like the one on the care2 link....except that the one in the video was covered in its blood and shaking, eyes wide open but having trouble breathing.  Of course none of the hunters thought to just end its suffering, thinking, I imagine, how much money they might get for its fur.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 7:48PM #162
solfeggio
Posts: 9,353

'Traditional way of life'?  What a load of crap.  Really.


Let's see, now.  Keeping slaves was once a 'traditional way of life,' too, wasn't it?  It still is, in some places.


And keeping your women in burkas is also a 'traditional way of life,' isn't it?


Gladitorial matches in ancient Rome were once a 'traditional way of life.'


Punishing heretics was once a 'traditional way of life.'


Burning witches was once a 'traditional way of life', too. 


And, oh, yeah, subsistence living is also 'a traditional way of life' for a lot of people in central Asia.  It isn't much fun, of course, and you can get pretty hungry at times, but, hey, it's 'traditional,' so that makes it OK.


The traditional way is not always the best way or the right way to live.  And the appeal to tradition to explain something is a common fallacy.  What was done in the past does not necessarily justify that which is being done in the present.


 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 7:55PM #163
rabello
Posts: 21,692

Apr 28, 2012 -- 7:33PM, teilhard wrote:


The Annual Seal Hunt in some Areas of Canada is about a Traditional Way of Life ...




No it isn't. It is about selling pelts for the highest dollar from those who are amoral enough to pay for them.   


You should read the care2 article.


Why do you think they pound them about the head to kill them?  A question that remains unanswered by those defending such a barbaric practice.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 8:22PM #164
teilhard
Posts: 51,416

But again ... You WOULDN'T object if the Baby Seals were SHOT rather than clubbed ..


Apr 28, 2012 -- 7:47PM, rabello wrote:


Apr 28, 2012 -- 7:23PM, solfeggio wrote:


teilhard -


You protest that some of us don't 'get' it.  Oh, we get it, all right, more's the pity. 


Unlike many people who focus on the irrelevant details and fail to understand the principles involved, we see the big picture all too clearly.


 




Well said, solfeggio.  Thanks for the care2 link.  I once saw a video of the slaughter, in real time, which showed not only the bloodstained ice, but a pup that looked just like the one on the care2 link....except that the one in the video was covered in its blood and shaking, eyes wide open but having trouble breathing.  Of course none of the hunters thought to just end its suffering, thinking, I imagine, how much money they might get for its fur.





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2 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 8:24PM #165
teilhard
Posts: 51,416

"Settled Agriculture" as a Traditional Way of Life has produced its own Environmental -- and so, Ethical -- Problems ...


Do you object to "Settled Agriculture" ... ???  Why, or why not ... ???


Apr 28, 2012 -- 7:48PM, solfeggio wrote:


'Traditional way of life'?  What a load of crap.  Really.


Let's see, now.  Keeping slaves was once a 'traditional way of life,' too, wasn't it?  It still is, in some places.


And keeping your women in burkas is also a 'traditional way of life,' isn't it?


Gladitorial matches in ancient Rome were once a 'traditional way of life.'


Punishing heretics was once a 'traditional way of life.'


Burning witches was once a 'traditional way of life', too. 


And, oh, yeah, subsistence living is also 'a traditional way of life' for a lot of people in central Asia.  It isn't much fun, of course, and you can get pretty hungry at times, but, hey, it's 'traditional,' so that makes it OK.


The traditional way is not always the best way or the right way to live.  And the appeal to tradition to explain something is a common fallacy.  What was done in the past does not necessarily justify that which is being done in the present.


 





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2 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 8:43PM #166
IDBC
Posts: 4,568

 


Howdy Solf


Apr 28, 2012 -- 7:01PM, solfeggio wrote:


And, as for the people who supposedly make their living clubbing baby seals -


How could anybody possibly even attempt to justify this barbarity?


To say that it provides jobs is ludicrous.



It does provide jobs. 


Apr 28, 2012 -- 7:01PM, solfeggio wrote:


If the people can't find a decent job in the area where they live, why aren't they moving to someplace else to look for work?



Because they don't want to move to someplace else?


 


Apr 28, 2012 -- 7:01PM, solfeggio wrote:


  Why aren't they going back to school to learn some sort of trade? 



For the same reasons that people in New Zealand who work in black industries don't learn some sort of decent trade?


Apr 28, 2012 -- 7:01PM, solfeggio wrote:


 You can hardly say that you make your living killing seals for a few weeks every year.  This is hardly a career or even a noble occupation.  It's the ultimate cruelty.


www.care2.com/causes/brutal-seal-hunting...


So, picture the seal-clubber in action.  The fellow puts on his waterproof boots, jacket, and hat.  He picks up his nail-studded club, and off he goes to bludgeon the helpless little mammals, until the snow runs red. 



If you picture sheephearders in New Zealand committing mass murder and genocide on poor helpless baby sheep. 


Apr 28, 2012 -- 7:01PM, solfeggio wrote:


But, what, really, is the seal cull all about in the end?  It's just another example of the violence of humans against our fellow animals.  It goes on all the time in the slaughterhouses, doesn't it?  But in the case of the seals, we can see it happening, and so it enrages us.



Then don't look.  


Apr 28, 2012 -- 7:01PM, solfeggio wrote:


What's the real reason the Canadians are so keen to kill the seals? 


Simple.  Seals eat a lot of fish, and the fishermen don't like that.  So, kill the competition.


 


 




The poor innocent fish are going to be murdered wether by poor innocent seals or by mean ol fisherman.  


However the mean ol fisherman have a choice.  The seals do not have a choice. 


They must murder poor innocent fish in order to survive.   It seems to me that seals are amoral because they have no choice. 


Unlike humans who  do have a choice.   Humans can be moral, immoral, or amoral.   


They have choices that seals do not and that is what makes humans different from seals.  


Being able to make choices however does not explain why humans make they choices that they do make.    


Why is it that "some" humans make the choices that they make?  


  

HAVE A THINKING DAY MAY REASON GUIDE YOU
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 9:51PM #167
rabello
Posts: 21,692

Apr 28, 2012 -- 8:22PM, teilhard wrote:


But again ... You WOULDN'T object if the Baby Seals were SHOT rather than clubbed ..




You are just being argumentative.   Why don't you say what YOU believe in rather than telling other people what they believe in, when you don't actually have a clue.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 9:57PM #168
teilhard
Posts: 51,416

Either the MANNER of the Killing of the Baby Seals is under Discussion -- or it's NOT ...


Apr 28, 2012 -- 9:51PM, rabello wrote:


Apr 28, 2012 -- 8:22PM, teilhard wrote:


But again ... You WOULDN'T object if the Baby Seals were SHOT rather than clubbed ..




You are just being argumentative.   Why don't you say what YOU believe in rather than telling other people what they believe in, when you don't actually have a clue.





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2 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 10:09PM #169
rabello
Posts: 21,692

Apr 28, 2012 -- 9:57PM, teilhard wrote:


Either the MANNER of the Killing of the Baby Seals is under Discussion -- or it's NOT ...




So why do you keep bringing off-topic, and irrelevant topics into it?   This is a serious subject and for some of us, too serious to bother with your typically flippant and glib remarks.  It matters not one whit to me if you think clubbing a baby seal to death is A-OK...one day it will be ended, period, because of good "men" doing something.  You can be part of it, or not...your choice.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 10:17PM #170
teilhard
Posts: 51,416

YOU (again) OBJECT to the MANNER of Death of the Baby Seals, and THEN you OBJECT when someone else joins in the Discussion ...


If you don't want a RESPONSE to your Posts, you perhaps ought not POST anything ...


Apr 28, 2012 -- 10:09PM, rabello wrote:


Apr 28, 2012 -- 9:57PM, teilhard wrote:


Either the MANNER of the Killing of the Baby Seals is under Discussion -- or it's NOT ...




So why do you keep bringing off-topic, and irrelevant topics into it?   This is a serious subject and for some of us, too serious to bother with your typically flippant and glib remarks.  It matters not one whit to me if you think clubbing a baby seal to death is A-OK...one day it will be ended, period, because of good "men" doing something.  You can be part of it, or not...your choice.





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