May 4, 2012 -- 10:07PM, mountain_man wrote:

May 4, 2012 -- 9:02PM, christine3 wrote:

And I'll keep "cherry picking" articles that prove exactly my point...

No, you are cherry picking OPINIONS that you believe support your points. I could not care less about opinions. In a scientific discussion, which I see I am the only one here trying to do that, I go by the facts, not opinions.

Of course I am, and scientific articles are opinions if you want to put it that way, based on research.  Be that as it may, Beliefnet is a place to exchange opinions, world views.  

Why don't you cherry pick articles to support your point? 

Again, I run into the name Rene Descartes, and think of the holography of pain he caused for the animal world.  All educated people read Descartes and what they learned from him about animals filtered throughout the masses.  The mass-produced assembly line animals-for-meat industry was, in part, a development due to the disregard for animals as thinking, feeling creatures.

Animals don't feel pain?

"I think therefore I am".--Rene Descartes.  

So Rene, you thought that animals didn't have consciousness, therefore they could not feel pain or feel anything for that matter.  Billions of people have listened to you over the years and mistreated animals because they believed animals didn't feel pain.  I even heard it that children don't remember under the age of 3?, 2?.  What misinformed person back in history, most likely of some authority, made that tragic assumption then hand-fed his judgment upon the masses?  It has taken years to undo both these ridiculous assertions about animals and humans.  This is what happens when people of repute say ignorant things.  I lesson from all of this, think for yourself.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain_in_animals

May 5, 2012 -- 9:45AM, christine3 wrote:

Again, I run into the name Rene Descartes...

Since most people have not read anything he said and have no idea what the Cogito is about or how it's wrong, anything he said has nothing to do with meat eaters.

May 5, 2012 -- 9:47AM, mountain_man wrote:

May 5, 2012 -- 9:03AM, christine3 wrote:

Of course I am, and scientific articles are opinions if you want to put it that way, based on research.....

There is a difference between scientific facts and opinions. A claim that fish feel more pain than humans is an opinion, not a scientific fact. It is also a false claim since it is based on an unsupportable belief, not facts. Often after such absurd claims are made, and countered, the claimant brings in all kinds of opinions as an attempt to direct the discussion away from that original claim. It's a common, but obvious, tactic that never works.

Muck with the words all you want.....you have met a wall that you can't climb over with me.  You keep referring back to fish feeling more pain.  Why do you do that?  Although all animals feel pain, this thread is about cows.  Stick with the subject.  

Well, I don't know. I thought Descartes was pretty coordinated; he knew up from down, left from right.