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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 1:28AM #531
solfeggio
Posts: 9,079

Christine -


I agree with you that birth control is the answer to the rapidly growing world population. 


But, unfortunately, the women who need it most live in the so-called 'developing' world (really the never-to-be-developed world in truth) are not going to get it for various reasons.


www.reuters.com/article/2009/02/27/us-bi...

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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 9:12AM #532
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,095

May 3, 2012 -- 12:54AM, christine3 wrote:


May 2, 2012 -- 9:45PM, mountain_man wrote:


May 2, 2012 -- 1:11AM, solfeggio wrote:

Just because one person happened to visit one meat-packing plant somewhere in America, and that person decided that the plant was humanely slaughtering cows....


That's an assumption you cannot make. It's not just one, but thousands of people that want to see how it is done have made visits.


In fact, various studies have shown,.....


Those biased "documentaries" show nothing but their bias.


After all, it has been proven that fish feel pain much more acutely than humans...


No, it has not. Fish are unable to reply to a question about the scale of their pain. Or do you, or someone, have a mental link with these fish?




You have been given plenty of studies about how pain is measured in animals.  But you don't like science, so it doesn't do you any good.







Here's a piece with Dr. James Rose, a respected professor emeritus of zoology and physiology at the University of Wyoming where he has studied neurological issues for almost forty years that says that fish do not feel pain, www.worldfishingnetwork.com/news/is-fish....


Now, here's an article that interviews Dr. Sneddon who does say that fish feel pain, but then goes on to say that she doesn't think that means that people should stop fishing as she doesn't see that it's cruel as long as the fisherman(woman) gets the fish out quickly and kills it, www.nytimes.com/2003/05/06/world/hooked-....


There are multiple viewpoints on this even from scientists...

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 12:05PM #533
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

I don't know... sounds kinda "fishy" to me. 


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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 1:04PM #534
christine3
Posts: 6,931

Parallel cow milkers.  Notice the cows don't have tails.  I'm sure they were not anesthetized before wacking off their tails.  OUCH!!


www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PCB0zgq5n4&feat...

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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 1:13PM #535
christine3
Posts: 6,931
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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 1:45PM #536
christine3
Posts: 6,931


Solf: After all, it has been proven that fish feel pain much more acutely than humans...


MM: Fish are unable to reply to a question about the scale of their pain. 


>>>>That's not a sufficient reason to decide that fish don't feel pain.  All creatures that have a nervous system feel pain. That's what nervous systems are for.  Nervous systems evolved lockstep with the environment, so that creatures would survive.  


GC: Here's a piece with Dr. James Rose, a respected professor emeritus of zoology and physiology at the University of Wyoming where he has studied neurological issues for almost forty years that says that fish do not feel pain...Now, here's an article that interviews Dr. Sneddon who does say that fish feel pain...


>>>>>But we don't stop at the contradictions.  Observing the nature of studies themselves over time, how they begin, develop and end, shows us that there are multiple viewpoints and hundreds of studies until the final decision is made.   This is the inevitable progression towards the final knowledge, beyond a shadow of a doubt.  They will finally decide that fish feel pain and then go onto something else to prove, beyond the shadow of a doubt.


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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 1:57PM #537
christine3
Posts: 6,931

Did You Know?  


Cows can communicate with each other by “mooing” frequently. This helps them keep in contact, especially when it is dark. Cattle also communicate through a wide variety of physical movements and facial expressions.


Cows have been known to form lifelong friendships.


Cattle will look out for the old and weak members of the herd.


When dairy cows return to be milked, a leader is selected to guide the way.


Their mother’s milk and good exercise are crucial to the growth of a happy calf. In a natural environment, a calf nurses for up to eight months (much more than the few days or hours that factory farms allow). This is how the calf receives all the nutrients it needs and develops its immunities.


The calf’s strength and coordination are built through playing with other calves.


Not all cattle are cows. Cow is a term used to describe female cattle that have given birth. Females who have not yet had any babies are called heifers. Males are called bulls and the young are known as calves.


Cows have excellent senses of hearing and smell. They can hear high and low frequencies better than humans, and can detect odors from as far away as 8km.


A cow’s coat is like a snowflake – each spot on a cow is unique so no two cows are exactly alike.


Often people think that bulls have horns and cows do not, but both male and female cattle can have horns. Cattle deal with attackers by lowering their heads and charging, so horns can help a cow protect her calves from predators. Cows living in herds will co-operate to protect all their young.

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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 2:21PM #538
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,095

May 3, 2012 -- 1:45PM, christine3 wrote:



Solf: After all, it has been proven that fish feel pain much more acutely than humans...


MM: Fish are unable to reply to a question about the scale of their pain. 


>>>>That's not a sufficient reason to decide that fish don't feel pain.  All creatures that have a nervous system feel pain. That's what nervous systems are for.  Nervous systems evolved lockstep with the environment, so that creatures would survive.  


GC: Here's a piece with Dr. James Rose, a respected professor emeritus of zoology and physiology at the University of Wyoming where he has studied neurological issues for almost forty years that says that fish do not feel pain...Now, here's an article that interviews Dr. Sneddon who does say that fish feel pain...


>>>>>But we don't stop at the contradictions.  Observing the nature of studies themselves over time, how they begin, develop and end, shows us that there are multiple viewpoints and hundreds of studies until the final decision is made.   This is the inevitable progression towards the final knowledge, beyond a shadow of a doubt.  They will finally decide that fish feel pain and then go onto something else to prove, beyond the shadow of a doubt.





They could just as well decide that fish don't feel any pain.

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 2:57PM #539
christine3
Posts: 6,931
GC:  They could just as well decide that fish don't feel any pain.

>>>>Nah, I just don't think that's gonna happen.  They have a nervous system.
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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 5:08PM #540
arielg
Posts: 9,116

If they have nerves, they feel  pain.  They may not be consciously aware of pain as humans are, but they certainly feel it. They don't try desperately to get away because they enjoy the struggle


 The canard that fishes don't feel  pain is one more argument   the "being eaters" use to justify their eating habits. It would be more honest  to say "I don't care if they suffer, I like to eat them". But humans have a consciousness that requires them to be right. So they have to rationalize. Animals don't have to do that, but we are not "just animals that can  do whatever  predators  do."


 


 

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