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2 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 2:36PM #391
teilhard
Posts: 50,085

In Fact just less than a half Hour ago I VERY much enjoyed a large Salad for my Lunch -- mostly mixed Greens and fresh Tomato ... YUM ... !!!


Apr 25, 2012 -- 2:33PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


Apr 24, 2012 -- 9:28PM, mountain_man wrote:


Apr 24, 2012 -- 6:06PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

Oh, we are predators....


In more ways that one. But that does not excuse you from eating your veggies.




No doubt. And I love veggies. 






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2 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 2:43PM #392
christine3
Posts: 6,682

Apr 25, 2012 -- 2:19PM, teilhard wrote:


Interesting Thought ...


You would be okay with a NEW Arrangement for Slaughtering Cattle if we had Lions, Tigers, and Bears do the actual Killing, and only then The Humans would step-in and complete The Butchering Process ... ???




You are one to go to the absurd, I've noticed.  Nevermind that it doesn't solve a problem.


The human population has gone over the mark and continues to need food.  Nature will right the situation.  If it were not for this overpopulation, animal farms slaughter houses would cease to be necessary.  The very thought of it...animal farms!?!  This is a difficult planet.  Everything is a parasite on everything else.  I think it is at the lower end of what is evolutionarily possible in the universe.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 2:44PM #393
farragut
Posts: 3,941

"mostly mixed Greens"


 


and who knows how many tiny imbedded insects.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 2:52PM #394
teilhard
Posts: 50,085

Yup ... GOOD Source of a BIT of Protein ...


Apr 25, 2012 -- 2:44PM, farragut wrote:


"mostly mixed Greens"


 


and who knows how many tiny imbedded insects.





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2 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 2:53PM #395
rabello
Posts: 20,468

Apr 25, 2012 -- 11:15AM, Erey wrote:


I believe slaughter houses, especialy modern and ethical slaughterhouses (as championed by the afore mentioned Temple Grandon) are much more kinder and compassionate than nature.  Nature is brutal, violent and terrifying.  Slaughterhouses are designed to be as quick and painless as possible. 




**cough**


Apr 25, 2012 -- 12:16PM, christine3 wrote:


>>>>I don't put "ethical" and "slaughterhouses" in the same sentence.  




Exactly


Apr 25, 2012 -- 12:16PM, christine3 wrote:


The article talks about veterinary-assisted euthanasia" being the most ethical option of all.  I am assuming that it is too costly because there was no discussion of it.  




I think it's because the "shot" ruins the meat, since the drug would be disseminated to the muscle meat that people value and the "trimmings" that go into the making of pink slime and things like hot dogs and bologna.



Apr 25, 2012 -- 12:16PM, christine3 wrote:


If you read this article, it is not ONLY the slaughterhouses, but what happens in transportation to the slaughterhouse.  The article claims Temple Grandin has designed 54% of slaughterhouses in the U.S.  




True for all animals who are trucked in cattle cars to the slaughtering stage.  Some places even use forklifts to carry or drag the cows to the slaughter stage for those who remember those sorry pictures takes surreptitiously by the Humane Society of America.   "Ethical" my foot!



Apr 25, 2012 -- 12:16PM, christine3 wrote:


This is nature at its kindest.  




Assembly-line killing doesn't even compare to what happens in nature.  That fact, alone, makes nature "kinder" than man's torturous inventions.  In nature, the living being has a chance to get away and live another day.



Apr 25, 2012 -- 12:16PM, christine3 wrote:


>>>>>Nine billion "prey animals" are killed in slaughterhouses in the United States each year so people can eat them.  Nine billion.  This is not what would be happening in nature if there were less humans.   Humans have overridden and overpopulated the planet.  Human to animal ratio is out of balance.  There is going to be hell to pay for the imbalance.  It is thoughtless and inhumane.  Humans are smart enough to farm their food, so this is what happens.  Maybe they are dumb enough.  In any event, it doesn't mean it is right.  Be careful, you might become a carcass given the right situation, because this system is already in place.




Excellent points, christine.

Apr 25, 2012 -- 2:28PM, christine3 wrote:


Why have humans thought that animals don't have thought, fear and pain?  


Humans have long been aware of, worried about, and felt guilt about, animal slaughter.  In religion, it has been called "ritual slaughter". This ritual slaughter of animals in temples went to feasting afterward by the priesthood.  The people were told God wanted it and needed it.


What it comes down to most of all, people haven't known the animal's fear and pain because they are not the animal.  


The more evolved humans become, the more they will feel the animal's fear and pain, as well as other humans' fear and pain.  -- Rudolph Steiner


Steiner wasn't the first to say that.  People have known it for a long time but have to continually be reminded.  


Extending this out, people are prevented from thinking that other humans suffer. Those other people "over there" and "we can't see them" therefore we don't know their suffering.  We also can't feel it.  We are prevented from thinking such thoughts because of the economic system we live in, and that people have to make money in order to survive, and war is a way to stimulate the economy.  They should not call it "war" because the word doesn't reveal what it is.  It is KILLING for gain.  "War on terror" are the three most idiotic words I've heard since I've been alive.  


The junk we are told is necessary, and the lifestyle we are told is necessary, is a lot just the seller (political or otherwise) who wants us to buy into the idea, or buy the product, so he can make money to survive, or make money to have status.  It's all sick.  Don't go to sleep when you hear "it's all good".  Hearing "it's all good" turns off peoples' minds, makes them numb to the bad that needs to be changed.




More excellent points, christine.  I'm glad you started this thread!

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 2:54PM #396
teilhard
Posts: 50,085

(Almost) Every Living Thing on The Earth depends at some Level on OTHER Living Things for its ongoing Life ... Some Folks OBJECT to this Fact of Life; many of us simply accept it ...


Apr 25, 2012 -- 2:43PM, christine3 wrote:


Apr 25, 2012 -- 2:19PM, teilhard wrote:


Interesting Thought ...


You would be okay with a NEW Arrangement for Slaughtering Cattle if we had Lions, Tigers, and Bears do the actual Killing, and only then The Humans would step-in and complete The Butchering Process ... ???




You are one to go to the absurd, I've noticed.  Nevermind that it doesn't solve a problem.


The human population has gone over the mark and continues to need food.  Nature will right the situation.  If it were not for this overpopulation, animal farms slaughter houses would cease to be necessary.  The very thought of it...animal farms!?!  This is a difficult planet.  Everything is a parasite on everything else.  I think it is at the lower end of what is evolutionarily possible in the universe.





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2 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 3:04PM #397
rabello
Posts: 20,468

Apr 25, 2012 -- 2:35PM, teilhard wrote:


Yes ... In Fact "Kosher - Halal" Slaughter IS more Humane than the common Industrial Slaughter Process of "Stun"-or-"Shoot" the Animal ... I agree ...




There is no factual basis to such a claim,  it is simple a matter of opinion that is probably most dependent upon what someone is already used to.    The most humane way to kill a living being that can feel fear and pain is to put it to sleep, the way human beings choose to do with the animals they actually value for something more than personal gratification, whether that gratification is the sheer thrill of the kill, profit, or taste.  "Kosher - Halal" doesn't do that to it's livestocked animals.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 3:05PM #398
christine3
Posts: 6,682

Apr 25, 2012 -- 2:35PM, teilhard wrote:


Yes ... In Fact "Kosher - Halal" Slaughter IS more Humane than the common Industrial Slaughter Process of "Stun"-or-"Shoot" the Animal ... I agree ...




I clipped my post for brevity, but I never said anything about Halal slaughter, so why you went there and said you agreed?  Hanging an animal upside down by its hooves, letting it bleed to death (which takes a long time) is even more painful.


Like I said, the guys selling you the meat are going to tell you things so they can sell you the meat.  


They use words like "prescribed method" so you think it is okay.  "Slaughtering in the name of God" God approves of this? What?  


The man at the Halal meat market says, "Animals are consistently treated with mercy and respect, and blessed with the name of Allah (God)."  What a line.  It goes back to the preisthoods who were sitting on their fat asses while controlling people, raping young girls who were brought to the temple for their blessings, and telling people to go kill such-and-such because God wanted it.


Dhabiha: method of slaughter



Ḏabīḥah (ذَبِيْحَة) is the prescribed method of slaughtering all animals excluding fish and most sea-life per Islamic law. This method of slaughtering animals consists of using a well sharpened knife to make a swift, deep incision that cuts the front of the throat, the carotid artery, wind pipe and jugular veins but leaves the spinal cord intact.[2] The animal is then hung upside-down and left to exsanguinate.


The head of an animal that is slaughtered using halal methods is aligned with the Qiblah. In addition to the direction, permitted animals should be slaughtered in the name of Allah (God).


According to Amin Atta, one of central California’s largest Halal meat producers and former president of the Islamic Center of Central California (Masjid Fresno), he reports that the meat itself contains no blood clots within the veins—giving the meat a longer shelf life.  Atta adds, “Animals are consistently treated with mercy and respect and will be blessed with the name of God (Allah) prior to slaughter, according to Islamic Halal requirements”.[3]


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2 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 3:26PM #399
teilhard
Posts: 50,085

The VERY quick slashing of The Carotid Artery results in VERY Rapid loss-of-Consciousness ..



Apr 25, 2012 -- 3:05PM, christine3 wrote:


Apr 25, 2012 -- 2:35PM, teilhard wrote:


Yes ... In Fact "Kosher - Halal" Slaughter IS more Humane than the common Industrial Slaughter Process of "Stun"-or-"Shoot" the Animal ... I agree ...




I clipped my post for brevity, but I never said anything about Halal slaughter, so why you went there and said you agreed?  Hanging an animal upside down by its hooves, letting it bleed to death (which takes a long time) is even more painful.


Like I said, the guys selling you the meat are going to tell you things so they can sell you the meat.  


They use words like "prescribed method" so you think it is okay.  "Slaughtering in the name of God" God approves of this? What?  


The man at the Halal meat market says, "Animals are consistently treated with mercy and respect, and blessed with the name of Allah (God)."  What a line.  It goes back to the preisthoods who were sitting on their fat asses while controlling people, raping young girls who were brought to the temple for their blessings, and telling people to go kill such-and-such because God wanted it.


Dhabiha: method of slaughter



Ḏabīḥah (ذَبِيْحَة) is the prescribed method of slaughtering all animals excluding fish and most sea-life per Islamic law. This method of slaughtering animals consists of using a well sharpened knife to make a swift, deep incision that cuts the front of the throat, the carotid artery, wind pipe and jugular veins but leaves the spinal cord intact.[2] The animal is then hung upside-down and left to exsanguinate.


The head of an animal that is slaughtered using halal methods is aligned with the Qiblah. In addition to the direction, permitted animals should be slaughtered in the name of Allah (God).


According to Amin Atta, one of central California’s largest Halal meat producers and former president of the Islamic Center of Central California (Masjid Fresno), he reports that the meat itself contains no blood clots within the veins—giving the meat a longer shelf life.  Atta adds, “Animals are consistently treated with mercy and respect and will be blessed with the name of God (Allah) prior to slaughter, according to Islamic Halal requirements”.[3]






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2 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 3:41PM #400
rabello
Posts: 20,468

Apr 25, 2012 -- 3:26PM, teilhard wrote:


The VERY quick slashing of The Carotid Artery results in VERY Rapid loss-of-Consciousness ..




Some would say not quick enough for something so unconscionable.   But, if this method is so superior, why don't vets use it to put down people's pets?

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