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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 8:06PM #91
christine3
Posts: 6,609

Apr 16, 2012 -- 7:52PM, mountain_man wrote:

Apr 16, 2012 -- 4:40PM, christine3 wrote:

You accused me of harassing you.  That isn't true...


You and others have harassed, and severely judged, the meat eaters in this forum. Stop it. It's not nice and only detracts from your message.





I don't know how you can say that.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 9:19PM #92
farragut
Posts: 3,937

"Well, no, actually there aren't any ethical or healthy ways to raise or hunt 'meat.'  (Why don't you just say 'cow' or 'pig' or 'chicken'?)


The very fact that you are raising that lamb or that steer for the express purpose of killing and eating it later, or that you're going out on a hunting trip for the purpose of shooting a deer or other animal, shows that you do not consider that animals to have any right to life.


This is the might-makes-right mentality.  It is to commit a violent act.  And since violence is one of the many ideologies that are part of the human cultural legacy, it is accepted by the masses."


 


You're right, this isn't preaching.  It's ranting.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 9:27PM #93
teilhard
Posts: 49,873

ALL Harvesting, Preparation, and Eating of ANY Food Creature -- Plant or Animal --  inherently involves SOME Level of "Violence":  Cutting, Picking, Pulling-Out, Chopping, Mashing, Cooking, Chewing, etc. ... Pulling "Weeds" from the Garden, Intercepting and Dispatching Insect "Pests," etc., etc., is inherently a VIOLENT Act ...


To LIVE is to EAT ... To TRY to be excessively "Righteous" about it is NOT helpful ...

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 9:52PM #94
christzen
Posts: 6,230

Apr 16, 2012 -- 6:16PM, arielg wrote:



That may be because probably 100% of the vegetarians or those who have consciously changed their eating habits to some extent, have started as meat eaters and have explored the subject before making the changes.


So, we know what we are taking about, as opposed to most meat eaters who, with a very few exceptions, are people who eat meat because they always have done so  and are unwilling or unable to even look into the subject.



 


Or,it is more likely that you are a convert,and as with most converts to any belief system,have become a fanatic who feels the need to proslytize their beliefs.And when rejected,you get angry at the rejection and feel the need to condemn those you feel live by an inferior code of ethics.You are not much different than the evangelicals who respond to rejection with "well then you will fry in Hell".


 


You are also insufferably presumptive to presume that because people are not vegetarians they have not considered vegetarianism.Some do,and after giving it some thought,choose to stay with eating meat.Possibly many do so.I know I did.I considered it,based mostly on the ethics of people like the Dalai Lama and Thich Nhat Hanh that I admired.In the end,I decided that the human body was designed to eat meat and that therefore there was nothing wrong with it.


So get over yourself


That is where the defensiveness comes from and all the crap about judging,  preaching, proselityzing and all the nonsense intended to put down the messengers and ignore the subject. 


  We say it like it is and that disturbs people who do not want to be disturbed. 





 


I hope you don't seriously believe that any meat eater is disturbed by the judgemental rantings of militant and rabid vegetarians.I'm not,and I know of no one else who is.I like meat.I am well aware of where it comes from,and I use the names beef and pork,etc,as conveniences because that is how it is referred to by society.I have no mental issues with saying I am eating a cow,a pig,a deer,a chicken,etc,etc.I have shot my own deer and dressed it.Looked it in the eye while doing so.It is the way things are meant to be.If man were supposed to eat only vegetables we would not be equipped to process meat.Simple as that.Forego meat if you wish,but don't go around suffering from the delusion that those of us choosing to eat meat are suffering any guilt over it.It would be as silly as feeling guilty over needing to drink water.It is the way we are designed.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 10:15PM #95
Erey
Posts: 18,366

I am going to make a blanket statment that I believe to be true.


EVERYONE HERE, I mean EVERYONE on this thread, poster and lurker from the vegan to the die-hard meat eater have done the following:


1. thought seriously about their diet


2. read up on nutrition


3. Still reads nutrition liturature at least a few times a year on the low end to at least once a week on the high end.


4. Has considered giving up meat (to different levels)


5. most here have given up meat for a time from weeks to years.  I personally spent several years where I ate meat about once a month. 



It is the absolute height of presumption to assume that just becuase not everyone makes your choices they are brain dead or unthinking or just dont care.  We have all done our own research and come up with our own conclusions. 


I am perfectly OK that some people decide to be vegetarians and some people decide to be vegans and some go gluten free, others are flexitarian, some believe in the Paleo diet, I am pretty much OK with anyone's choices as long as they are not spending all their expendible income ordering the endangered species plate. 


I do get the undeniable impression that vegetarians and vegans are highly intolerant of other people's food choices. 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 10:17PM #96
teilhard
Posts: 49,873

I agree with your Observations (below) ...


Apr 16, 2012 -- 10:15PM, Erey wrote:


I am going to make a blanket statment that I believe to be true.


EVERYONE HERE, I mean EVERYONE on this thread, poster and lurker from the vegan to the die-hard meat eater have done the following:


1. thought seriously about their diet


2. read up on nutrition


3. Still reads nutrition liturature at least a few times a year on the low end to at least once a week on the high end.


4. Has considered giving up meat (to different levels)


5. most here have given up meat for a time from weeks to years.  I personally spent several years where I ate meat about once a month. 



It is the absolute height of presumption to assume that just becuase not everyone makes your choices they are brain dead or unthinking or just dont care.  We have all done our own research and come up with our own conclusions. 


I am perfectly OK that some people decide to be vegetarians and some people decide to be vegans and some go gluten free, others are flexitarian, some believe in the Paleo diet, I am pretty much OK with anyone's choices as long as they are not spending all their expendible income ordering the endangered species plate. 


I do get the undeniable impression that vegetarians and vegans are highly intolerant of other people's food choices. 





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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 10:19PM #97
christine3
Posts: 6,609

Apr 16, 2012 -- 9:27PM, teilhard wrote:


ALL Harvesting, Preparation, and Eating of ANY Food Creature -- Plant or Animal --  inherently involves SOME Level of "Violence":  Cutting, Picking, Pulling-Out, Chopping, Mashing, Cooking, Chewing, etc. ... Pulling "Weeds" from the Garden, Intercepting and Dispatching Insect "Pests," etc., etc., is inherently a VIOLENT Act ...


To LIVE is to EAT ... To TRY to be excessively "Righteous" about it is NOT helpful ...




I think you've got something misconceived here.  no no no.  When you say "ALL harvesting, Preparation, and Eating of ANY Food Creature--Plant or Animal"


Then you go on to describe how you process items from the plant kingdom.  This is not killing and feeling in the same sense because animals have brains, hearts, nervous systems, and are what is called sentient.  


There have been arguments that plants feel pain.  No, they don't feel pain in that sense.  They reflect an impactive environment, but is not reacting to pain because they don't have a nervous system that reports to a brain.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 10:29PM #98
teilhard
Posts: 49,873

I certainly agree that HUMANE Slaughter Practices (e.g., "Halal" - "Kosher") are MUCH to be preferred and ABSOLUTELY for sure HUMANE Practice in raising / caring for captive/domesticated Animals is ESSENTIAL ... 


Do we Humans fulfill those Requirements ... ???  No ... VERY sadly, no ... But THAT is a DIFFERENT Question than the Ethics of Meat Eating (in general) ... 


I have the last couple of Years been teaching one of my GrandSons (now age 8) the Joys and Techniques of "Fishing" (here in Minnesota, it's almost a virtual "Religion," as well as a genuine Rite-of-Passage) ... I have been and continue to be RELENTLESS in teaching him RESPECT for ALL Living Things, including the Worms we sometimes use for "Bait" ... and VERY much so for the Fish we (sometimes) catch ...


I teach him ALSO Respect for PLANTS and Insects, and ALL Things that Have The Spirit-Breath of Life ...


Apr 16, 2012 -- 10:19PM, christine3 wrote:


Apr 16, 2012 -- 9:27PM, teilhard wrote:


ALL Harvesting, Preparation, and Eating of ANY Food Creature -- Plant or Animal --  inherently involves SOME Level of "Violence":  Cutting, Picking, Pulling-Out, Chopping, Mashing, Cooking, Chewing, etc. ... Pulling "Weeds" from the Garden, Intercepting and Dispatching Insect "Pests," etc., etc., is inherently a VIOLENT Act ...


To LIVE is to EAT ... To TRY to be excessively "Righteous" about it is NOT helpful ...




I think you've got something misconceived here.  no no no.  When you say "ALL harvesting, Preparation, and Eating of ANY Food Creature--Plant or Animal"


Then you go on to describe how you process items from the plant kingdom.  This is not killing and feeling in the same sense because animals have brains, hearts, nervous systems, and are what is called sentient.  


There have been arguments that plants feel pain.  No, they don't feel pain in that sense.  They register an impactive environment, but is not reacting to pain because they don't have a nervous system that reports to a brain.





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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 10:57PM #99
christine3
Posts: 6,609


I teach him ALSO Respect for PLANTS and Insects, and ALL Things that Have The Spirit-Breath of Life ...


That's sweet.  We've all had experiences with children that we could be beautiful in front of them and they love us.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 11:31PM #100
teilhard
Posts: 49,873

One of my Daughters, at about age three, taught me VOLUMES of Love and Respect for All Things Living ... 


My Sweetie-Spouse and I were "weeding" our Flower Bed (of luxuriously BEAUTIFUL "Iris") and our sweet little Girl saw us pulling up and discarding the "Weeds," and asked what we were doing ... When we explained "weeding," she said, "Oh ... !!! That's SAD ..."  (I think she's a re-incarnated Old Soul ... )


Apr 16, 2012 -- 10:57PM, christine3 wrote:



I teach him ALSO Respect for PLANTS and Insects, and ALL Things that Have The Spirit-Breath of Life ...


That's sweet.  We've all had experiences with children that we could be beautiful in front of them and they love us.





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