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2 years ago  ::  May 15, 2012 - 12:17PM #811
teilhard
Posts: 51,393

Nope ... I'm INCLUSIVE, i.e., NOT into ALL-or-NOTHING ... (except, I don't eat "Brains" of any Species, I don't care for "Sushi," and I'm still leery of eating whole Insects ...)


May 15, 2012 -- 11:56AM, christine3 wrote:


May 15, 2012 -- 11:22AM, teilhard wrote:


It's the Self-Righteous ALL-or-NOTHING Stance that I find mindless ...




And yours is not "All-or-NOTHING"? So here we are, a stand-off, each polarized side driven by its respective motivations.  Only time will tell which side will flourish in its future.


 





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2 years ago  ::  May 15, 2012 - 12:19PM #812
mountain_man
Posts: 39,678

May 15, 2012 -- 11:54AM, christine3 wrote:

Do you not recognize that you are doing the same thing...


I am doing no such thing. I'm here battling the untruths being presented. Leave junk science and personal attacks out of your postings and I won't have a thing to say. And you really should apologize for your past attacks.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  May 15, 2012 - 12:21PM #813
mountain_man
Posts: 39,678

May 15, 2012 -- 10:54AM, arielg wrote:

It would be more useful to the discussion if you find another devise than the usual  turning around and attacking whatever people say in lieu of a thought of your own. 


That is what I am trying to get you guys to understand. Your attacking of those that made a different choice than you have has completely eroded any credibility you believe you had in the first place.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  May 15, 2012 - 12:52PM #814
arielg
Posts: 9,116

If you understand what is being argued, you have demonstrated an inability to fully grasp it, or admit that yours is not the only tenable viewpoint -- regarding animal welfare, hunting, ranching, diet, ecology, land and wildlife managment, etc.



I  understand  very well what is being argued. I wonder if you do.


You like hunting. You do not see animals as beings  themselves whose life deserves to be respected. You consider yourself a "predator" and reserves the right to manipulate and dispose of their existence according to your human desires and predatory instincts.  Animals  make good BBQ.


 Your position is not rocket science.  It  is the accepted view of the majority of humanity in it's present state of development.


 Animal welfare, wildlife management, ecology are all subterfuges to insure there is  sustainable hunting.  I doubt many hunters would be interested in animal "welfare" if there was no possibility of hunting.


There is one little detail  which makes  a big difference in perception: empathy and other human attributes that go beyong the animal  aspect.  But that is always ignored, because it would conflict with the predation. Predators do not think, so they are relieved of the burden of considering right and wrong. When humans begin to think, there goes the predator. Unless they start rationalizing.


If there is empathy, mangement, animal  welfare and all the rest will be taken care of automatically.

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2 years ago  ::  May 15, 2012 - 1:11PM #815
Iwantamotto
Posts: 8,266

arielg:  You like hunting. You do not see animals as beings  themselves whose life deserves to be respected.


Vegetarians casually dismiss any thought of the value of veggies, IIRC.


A carrot doesn't have a brain?  So what?  Jellyfish don't either.  A plant can't feel pain?  Why are plants capable of exuding toxins?  For the hell of it?  Or is it to avoid being eaten?  Plants have survival traits as well, just as the antelope have horns and bunnies have long legs and kitties have claws.  None of those traits are conscious acts of will, but they show that the species valued survival enough to have defenses.


Animal welfare, wildlife management, ecology are all subterfuges to insure there is  sustainable hunting.


All carnivores should.  Starving to death sucks.  Herbivores shouldn't be hunted to extinction, but they can't just be kept free to do whatever they want either.  When wolves were reintroduced several varities of plant life, on the brink of endangerment or extinction, started to recover 'cause lots of deer weren't mucking up the plant population.


Your position is not rocket science.


At least responsible omnivores don't have a Disney-fied sense of ecology, where herbivores are saints and carnivores are villains.


If there is empathy, mangement, animal  welfare and all the rest will be taken care of automatically.


I'm reminded of a Fraggle Rock episode, "Toe Ticklers" or something, where MOkey Fraggle, the resident hippie, decides to protect a bunch of giant caterpillars because they were cute and fuzzy.  Soon all of Fraggle Rock was overflowing with them and the Gorg Garden was being destroyed.  Her "empathy" nearly destroyed the entire shown world because her "empathy" did not match any real knowledge of how ecology actually works.

Knock and the door shall open.  It's not my fault if you don't like the decor.
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2 years ago  ::  May 15, 2012 - 2:03PM #816
Yavanna
Posts: 3,149

May 15, 2012 -- 7:37AM, arielg wrote:


Joking is a way of hiding their inability to confront the  contradictions in their ways.  It is a way of pretending there would be  no problem, if only those pesky animal lovers would just stop pointing out that we are dealing with sentient beings, not just pieces of meat.




If only the animal lovers that think animals are sentient would stop getting upset that the other animal lovers happen to be behaving normally for our species.

The dwarves of yore made mighty spells,
While hammers fell like ringing bells
In places deep, where dark things sleep,
In hollow halls beneath the fells.

For ancient king and elvish lord
There many a gloaming golden hoard
They shaped and wrought, and light they caught
To hide in gems on hilt of sword.
- J.R.R. Tolkien
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2 years ago  ::  May 15, 2012 - 2:05PM #817
Yavanna
Posts: 3,149

May 15, 2012 -- 1:17AM, solfeggio wrote:


Hi, Christine -


Out of curiosity, I just had a quick look at the latest postings on this thread, which has gone on far longer than I would have thought possible.


But how very sad that the usual suspects keep on posting the same mindless drivel over and over again with no real purpose in mind except to heckle and jeer.


Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if they were talking about movies or television or politicians, but they're making a joke out of cruelty to our fellow animals, and that's just plain repulsive.


Good for you to keep on trying, but I think it's a losing battle.




And here most of us thought you were posting the same mindless drivel over and over again with no real purpose in mind except to heckle and jeer.


It wouldn't be so bad if you weren't making up facts and trying to make people feel bad over eating properly.

The dwarves of yore made mighty spells,
While hammers fell like ringing bells
In places deep, where dark things sleep,
In hollow halls beneath the fells.

For ancient king and elvish lord
There many a gloaming golden hoard
They shaped and wrought, and light they caught
To hide in gems on hilt of sword.
- J.R.R. Tolkien
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2 years ago  ::  May 15, 2012 - 3:44PM #818
rabello
Posts: 21,667

May 15, 2012 -- 12:21PM, mountain_man wrote:


May 15, 2012 -- 10:54AM, arielg wrote:

It would be more useful to the discussion if you find another devise than the usual  turning around and attacking whatever people say in lieu of a thought of your own. 


That is what I am trying to get you guys to understand. Your attacking of those that made a different choice than you have has completely eroded any credibility you believe you had in the first place.




Failed at that.


You and your fellow predators mistake passion for judgementalism.   Your mistake.


There is no mistaking the nasty attacks on vegetarians and vegans by you and your fellow predators, however, as you have posted nothing of substance except personal attacks based on whether you "like" someone, or not. 

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2 years ago  ::  May 15, 2012 - 4:08PM #819
rabello
Posts: 21,667

May 12, 2012 -- 10:23PM, Yavanna wrote:


May 12, 2012 -- 9:07PM, christine3 wrote:



I like to let people know what they are buying from the scary foods section (meat department).  They don't know.




Actually most of us do know. We simply don't care.




What?!?!   Exactly what solfeggio said and what she's been condemned for on this board!!  So, she was right after all!!!!!!


But, I commend you for showing that she has been right all along, and also for stating the only thing that the self-described "carnivores" on this board needed to say from the get-go, instead of all this malarky about "junk science" and "mythinformation" and "omnivores" and etc.  So, maybe I should just respond with a "Hallelujah!! Somebody finally stepped up to the plate!!!" instead of an incredulous "What?!?!"


(note to solfeggio....you have been vindicated)

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2 years ago  ::  May 15, 2012 - 4:27PM #820
teilhard
Posts: 51,393

Sunday Afternoon on my Way Home from the Grocery Store, I rescued a lovely Painted Turtle crossing the Road on a heavy traffic Street (they NEVER use the provided CrossWalk and NEVER stop and look both Ways before starting across ... !!!) ...


I have recently carefully captured-and-released Spiders and Wasps from our House ...


OF  COURSE  this "Omnivore" cares ...

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