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3 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 11:32AM #481
christzen
Posts: 6,569

Apr 29, 2012 -- 11:17AM, christine3 wrote:


Christine:  Hmm, there is plenty of evidence to disagree with what you've said.  For instance, that milking cows live a third the amount of years, and less (depending on what they are used for).  They are processed into meat starting at 4 years of age because they are no longer prime milk producers.  Rethinking what people do to animals and how they are used as a matter of conscience.  If humans were worked so that their life span dropped down to 15-20 years, one might rethink if they want to endorse or not.




 


Newsflash.Milking cows don't exist at all without the need of man for their milk,or flesh.They are a domesticated type of animal that no longer lives in the wild.


 


Apr 29, 2012 -- 11:17AM, christine3 wrote:


Christine:  If you are talking to me, I never said such a thing.  You have me confused with somebody else.  I'm relatively new here on the animal rights boards.



 


Sure you did.In the post I quoted.You guys don't even perceive the insults I guess.You said a higher life form is coming.In a discussion of animal rights and vegans,it is clear this refers to vegans,which implies meat eaters are a lower evolved life form.


 


But yes,others have said the same thing,and admitted  to it.You are not alone.


 


 


Apr 29, 2012 -- 11:17AM, christine3 wrote:


Christine:  Indigenous have ways of knowing what is to come; we haven't all lost our divination techniques.




 


Whatever.Drug induced hallucinations don't qualify as divine revelations to most people.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 12:10AM #482
solfeggio
Posts: 9,468

Nature did not design human beings to eat domesticated animals like cows. 


By the time of the Neolithic Revolution, about 10,000 years ago, we had long since evolved into our present shape.  And, as has been pointed out to the nonbelievers again and again and again, that shape did not include bodily adaptations for eating raw meat, and just cooking the flesh did not change that.


As for the assertion that cows are not a mistreated species: That is total bs.  Numerous investigations have shown that cows are indeed looked upon as nothing more than a resource.  And cattle are regularly treated literally like dirt.


www.animalsuffering.com/animal-cruelty.p...


www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/26/conkli...


www.petside.com/article/scary-cow-abuse-...


www.petside.com/article/scary-cow-abuse-...


www.mauinews.com/page/content.detail/id/...www.californiacowsarenothappy.com/how-co...


www.reuters.com/article/2008/06/25/us-us...


www.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2...


www.bovinevetonline.com/news/AABP-condem...


And here's the Howard Lyman web page.  He's a former cattle rancher turned vegan who writes the truth about the cattle industry.


www.madcowboy.com/


Finally, a statement from Gary Francione, who states the animal rights position:


'Animal rights promote the abolition of animal exploitation and reject the regulation of animal exploitation.  This is based on animal sentience.  Veganism is the baseline of the animal rights position and rejects all violence.'


www.abolitionistapproach.com/


And that is what this is all about.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 12:27AM #483
mountain_man
Posts: 40,197

Apr 30, 2012 -- 12:10AM, solfeggio wrote:

Nature did not design human beings to eat domesticated animals like cows.


Humans are omnivores. We evolved to eat a wide variety of foods. That an animal is labeled "domesticated" is meaningless to our diet or our evolution.

Moderated by Merope on Apr 30, 2012 - 02:48AM
Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 1:36AM #484
solfeggio
Posts: 9,468

Humans are not obligate or natural omnivores.  To be an obligate means that something is essential for the survival of the species, and animal flesh is assuredly not essential for anybody's diet.


A true omnivore could thrive on a diet made up entirely of meat.  And this is certainly not the case for humans.


Natural omnivores are fast enough to chase, outrun, and catch their animal prey.  They do not have claws or talons to hold animal prey.  They do not chew their meat; they tear it into chunks and swallow it whole. 


Humans did not evolve to do any of these things.  Nor did we evolve to have the digestive chemistry or the proper teeth to eat raw meat.


Humans can be described as behavioural omnivores because they do eat everything.  But this does not mean that they are necessarily eating things that are good for them.

Moderated by Merope on Apr 30, 2012 - 02:48AM
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 7:57AM #485
christzen
Posts: 6,569

Apr 30, 2012 -- 1:36AM, solfeggio wrote:


Humans are not obligate or natural omnivores.  To be an obligate means that something is essential for the survival of the species, and animal flesh is assuredly not essential for anybody's diet.


A true omnivore could thrive on a diet made up entirely of meat.  And this is certainly not the case for humans.


Natural omnivores are fast enough to chase, outrun, and catch their animal prey.  They do not have claws or talons to hold animal prey.  They do not chew their meat; they tear it into chunks and swallow it whole. 


Humans did not evolve to do any of these things.  Nor did we evolve to have the digestive chemistry or the proper teeth to eat raw meat.


Humans can be described as behavioural omnivores because they do eat everything.  But this does not mean that they are necessarily eating things that are good for them.




 


Your opinion is not the opinion of most nutritionists.I'll go with the experts who look at these things without an ideological bias,and they support the idea that man is designed to eat meat as part of their diet.If we weren't,we wouldn't have started doing so in prehistoric times,anymore than wolves would suddenly decide "tree leaves are plentiful and don't run,so I'll eat that instead of having to chase fast animals down."

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 9:15AM #486
teilhard
Posts: 51,828

No ... An Omnivore is an Opportunistic Feeder, capable of of eating just about ANYTHING it finds ... That's us ... Watch Andrew Zimmern's VERY entertaining Food Program sometime -- "Bizarre foods" ...


It IS true that there ARE some fellow Creatures that are disastrously poisonous to us, but, frankly, not really all that many ... (I don't really care for Mushrooms, anyway) ...


Apr 30, 2012 -- 1:36AM, solfeggio wrote:


Humans are not obligate or natural omnivores.  To be an obligate means that something is essential for the survival of the species, and animal flesh is assuredly not essential for anybody's diet.


A true omnivore could thrive on a diet made up entirely of meat.  And this is certainly not the case for humans.


Natural omnivores are fast enough to chase, outrun, and catch their animal prey.  They do not have claws or talons to hold animal prey.  They do not chew their meat; they tear it into chunks and swallow it whole. 


Humans did not evolve to do any of these things.  Nor did we evolve to have the digestive chemistry or the proper teeth to eat raw meat.


Humans can be described as behavioural omnivores because they do eat everything.  But this does not mean that they are necessarily eating things that are good for them.





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3 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 10:14AM #487
christine3
Posts: 7,637

Getting enough calcium in a vegan or vegetarian diet.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIKyBqExr80


For instance, 1 tablespoon of sesame seeds is 90 mg, 1/4 cup almonds 95 mg, 1/2 cup tofu 258 mg, and here is a link for 10 top vegetable sources of calcium


www.healthaliciousness.com/articles/high...


Another problem with milk...the fossel fuel it takes to ship milk and keep milk cold.  It doesn't add up.    





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3 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 10:18AM #488
teilhard
Posts: 51,828

How much Energy does it take to ship "Sesame Seeds" to Vegans in Minnesota ... ??? (hint: Sesame seeds are from the Tropics ... )


Apr 30, 2012 -- 10:14AM, christine3 wrote:


Getting enough calcium in a vegan or vegetarian diet.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIKyBqExr80


For instance, 1 tablespoon of sesame seeds is 90 mg, 1/4 cup almonds 95 mg, 1/2 cup tofu 258 mg, and here is a link for 10 top vegetable sources of calcium


www.healthaliciousness.com/articles/high...


Another problem with milk...the fossel fuel it takes to ship milk and keep milk cold.  It doesn't add up.    









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3 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 10:19AM #489
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,552

Apr 30, 2012 -- 1:36AM, solfeggio wrote:


Humans are not obligate or natural omnivores.  To be an obligate means that something is essential for the survival of the species, and animal flesh is assuredly not essential for anybody's diet.


A true omnivore could thrive on a diet made up entirely of meat.  And this is certainly not the case for humans.


Natural omnivores are fast enough to chase, outrun, and catch their animal prey.  They do not have claws or talons to hold animal prey.  They do not chew their meat; they tear it into chunks and swallow it whole. 


Humans did not evolve to do any of these things.  Nor did we evolve to have the digestive chemistry or the proper teeth to eat raw meat.


Humans can be described as behavioural omnivores because they do eat everything.  But this does not mean that they are necessarily eating things that are good for them.




Here is an interesting piece on a gentleman that lived on an exclusive meat diet for nine years and then replicated that diet with scientists, because the medical profession could not believe that he remained healthy on a meat-only diet. As you'll see, he and his partner did quite well on a meat-only diet.


inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/09/t...




 

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 10:23AM #490
teilhard
Posts: 51,828

But, see ...


The Vegans will point out that the Guy DIDN'T live like a Wolf or a Lion, bringing down Deer and Elk in the Forest with his Teeth and Claws ... (Of course, VERY, VERY few Vegans grow and produce all of THEIR own Food, either ... How many Vegans grow their own Almonds and Seseame Seeds in the BackYard ... ??? So ... whatever ...)


Apr 30, 2012 -- 10:19AM, Girlchristian wrote:


Apr 30, 2012 -- 1:36AM, solfeggio wrote:


Humans are not obligate or natural omnivores.  To be an obligate means that something is essential for the survival of the species, and animal flesh is assuredly not essential for anybody's diet.


A true omnivore could thrive on a diet made up entirely of meat.  And this is certainly not the case for humans.


Natural omnivores are fast enough to chase, outrun, and catch their animal prey.  They do not have claws or talons to hold animal prey.  They do not chew their meat; they tear it into chunks and swallow it whole. 


Humans did not evolve to do any of these things.  Nor did we evolve to have the digestive chemistry or the proper teeth to eat raw meat.


Humans can be described as behavioural omnivores because they do eat everything.  But this does not mean that they are necessarily eating things that are good for them.




Here is an interesting piece on a gentleman that lived on an exclusive meat diet for nine years and then replicated that diet with scientists, because the medical profession could not believe that he remained healthy on a meat-only diet. As you'll see, he and his partner did quite well on a meat-only diet.


inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/09/t...




 





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