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2 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 2:50PM #201
mindis1
Posts: 7,635

Apr 17, 2012 -- 3:58PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Apr 17, 2012 -- 3:48PM, mindis1 wrote:


Apr 17, 2012 -- 3:22PM, Girlchristian wrote:


When you claim that those that eat meat and defend meat eating based on sound research . . .



What “sound research” are you referring to, by which people defend human meat-eating?





There is plenty of research out there that shows that eating meat/fish is healthy and not at all something that everyone should ban from their diet.



So, you’re saying that you cannot cite any “sound research” to defend human meat-eating.


That’s what I thought. I don’t know of any “sound research” to defend human meat-eating, either. All the research points in the opposite direction, toward a diet heavy in plant foods as being the healthiest for humans, not a diet heavy in animal products. Right?


In fact, we know that eating the standard American diet, which consists of only 40% meat, is horribly unhealthy for humans compared to a vegetarian diet.


If humans were biologically adapted for a diet that consisted of any significant amount of meat, it would be a complete aberration among the apes. Correct?  One just doesn't see such aberrations in the animal kingdom, does one?

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 2:52PM #202
mindis1
Posts: 7,635

Apr 17, 2012 -- 3:58PM, rabello wrote:


Apr 17, 2012 -- 3:48PM, mindis1 wrote:


Apr 17, 2012 -- 3:22PM, Girlchristian wrote:


When you claim that those that eat meat and defend meat eating based on sound research . . .



What “sound research” are you referring to, by which people defend human meat-eating?




Good question!


Perhaps other example of words that matter are "mythinformation" and "junk science", both of which are used to deny current research reports that say eating meat is NOT "perfectly" healthy



I can’t even think of any “junk science” to defend human meat-eating. There is no evidence that humans need anything that is only gotten from meat. There is no evidence that a diet of more meat is ever better than a diet of less meat for humans. There is no evidence that humans are biologically adapted for any diet that consists of any significant amount of meat. All evidence points to the fact that a diet rich in plant foods is what humans need to eat.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 2:56PM #203
mindis1
Posts: 7,635

Apr 18, 2012 -- 1:32AM, solfeggio wrote:


Raising animals for food is a barbaric practise, and the fact that so many people have no problems with it shows just how brutal and savagely cruel the average person is today. 



Are you one of those “brutal and savagely cruel” average persons when you purchase dead canned factory farm animals in order to have the convenience of serving to your pet carnivores? Or are you something else? I don’t recall seeing where you’ve expressed having any moral “problem” with someone raising and killing these animals in factory farms that you purchase, although you seem eager and more than willing to morally condemn other people who participate in the same “barbaric practice” as you and I do.


People who keep pets who normally eat other animals, such as dogs and cats, could raise the animals intended as food for these pets in a humane environment, and even kill these animals so as to lessen their suffering. Perhaps you could explain your reasons for choosing to participate in the “barbaric practice” rather than doing this. (But I bet you don’t really want to think about it.)


It’s a shame that on this thread, where so many people have been quite specific about the unnecessary nastiness and personal condemnations that “vegetarians” often express, you dive in head first with an excellent example of not only worst kind but demonstrating that you have developed a whole misanthropic metaphysics that rests purely on your own hypocrisy. I realize that you cannot accept that it is hypocritical to morally condemn participants in the factory farm industry while the condemner participates in the same industry in a very large way. I’ve pointed out many times that the factory farm animal suffers just the same whether his/her carcass ends up in a human’s mouth or in a cat’s or dog’s mouth.


The thing is, as a number of animal advocates have pointed out, such unnecessary moral condemnations are generally hypocritical, and, worse, they distract attention away from discussions that encourage people to look at the many ways humans unnecessarily cause animals to suffer. Animal advocates would have a much easier plight if it weren’t for these distractions coming from people who are apparently mostly only interested in morally condemning others.


The thing most confounding to me is that you and I have had this discussion for several years now. Apparently none of it sinks in; can’t take in information, can’t take on a new perspective. To quote Kurt Vonnegut, “Hi ho.”

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 3:22PM #204
teilhard
Posts: 50,893

I like those also ...


Our Family Supper tonight will be Roasted Vegetables, a simple Recipe we love ...


Red Bell Pepper, Butternut Squash, Yukon Gold Potatoes, and an Onion in Pieces about one and a half Inch ... Coat with a Mixture of Balsamic Vinegar, Olive Oil, Thyme Leaves ... Salt and Pepper to taste ...


375 Degrees oven in a shallow Baking Dish, turn and re-mix about every ten Minutes until tender, about 50 Minutes ... Serve with some good Bread ... YUM ... !!!


(I would invite local Cows to join us, but their Table Manners leave WAY too MUCH to be desired ... Our Family does NOT allow "Cud-Chewing" during Supper ... Sorry, Bessie ... !!!)


Apr 18, 2012 -- 2:01PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


Apr 18, 2012 -- 1:11PM, mountain_man wrote:


Apr 18, 2012 -- 1:06PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

...That said, again, mass beef consumption is neither particularly healthy, or good for the environment. The future will probably be much more vegetarian.


I'd have no problem with that.




Me either.


I love the all-veggie sandwitches at Subway. 





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2 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 3:35PM #205
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,125

Apr 18, 2012 -- 2:50PM, mindis1 wrote:


Apr 17, 2012 -- 3:58PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Apr 17, 2012 -- 3:48PM, mindis1 wrote:


Apr 17, 2012 -- 3:22PM, Girlchristian wrote:


When you claim that those that eat meat and defend meat eating based on sound research . . .



What “sound research” are you referring to, by which people defend human meat-eating?





There is plenty of research out there that shows that eating meat/fish is healthy and not at all something that everyone should ban from their diet.



So, you’re saying that you cannot cite any “sound research” to defend human meat-eating.


That’s what I thought. I don’t know of any “sound research” to defend human meat-eating, either. All the research points in the opposite direction, toward a diet heavy in plant foods as being the healthiest for humans, not a diet heavy in animal products. Right?


I'm a former vegetarian that now eats meat because I have to. The research is out there and I've provided it in the past. So have others here. I don't intend to get into a 'my research is better than your research' argument when the research does show that a diet that includes meat is, indeed, healthy. A diet that is heavy in processed meat is not healthy, but that doesn't mean some meat in the diet is unhealthy.


We've discussed this before and I provided the numerous vitamins and proteins that one gets from meat, some of which, can't be gotten from a plant-based diet and, in fact, vegetarians have to use supplements to get.


In fact, we know that eating the standard American diet, which consists of only 40% meat, is horribly unhealthy for humans compared to a vegetarian diet.


It depends on the meat as the research shows.


If humans were biologically adapted for a diet that consisted of any significant amount of meat, it would be a complete aberration among the apes. Correct?  One just doesn't see such aberrations in the animal kingdom, does one?





"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 3:40PM #206
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,125

Apr 18, 2012 -- 2:52PM, mindis1 wrote:


Apr 17, 2012 -- 3:58PM, rabello wrote:


Apr 17, 2012 -- 3:48PM, mindis1 wrote:


Apr 17, 2012 -- 3:22PM, Girlchristian wrote:


When you claim that those that eat meat and defend meat eating based on sound research . . .



What “sound research” are you referring to, by which people defend human meat-eating?




Good question!


Perhaps other example of words that matter are "mythinformation" and "junk science", both of which are used to deny current research reports that say eating meat is NOT "perfectly" healthy



I can’t even think of any “junk science” to defend human meat-eating. There is no evidence that humans need anything that is only gotten from meat. There is no evidence that a diet of more meat is ever better than a diet of less meat for humans. There is no evidence that humans are biologically adapted for any diet that consists of any significant amount of meat. All evidence points to the fact that a diet rich in plant foods is what humans need to eat.






Nobody here has claimed that, BUT there is evidence that some meat in one's diet is healthy. That you're choosing to make it such an extreme argument (diet heavy in meat vs. no meat) is not something I need to defend. Mytmouse, MM, Erey, and myself have all said that a diet low in red meat and especially low in processed meat is the ideal. Where you're wrong is the claim that one shouldn't eat any meat at all.

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 4:14PM #207
Iwantamotto
Posts: 8,158

mindis1:  If humans were biologically adapted for a diet that consisted of any significant amount of meat, it would be a complete aberration among the apes.


Don't chimps eat meat, even other primates?


Girlchristian:  We've discussed this before and I provided the numerous vitamins and proteins that one gets from meat, some of which, can't be gotten from a plant-based diet and, in fact, vegetarians have to use supplements to get.


I think my favorite part of the whole "but I use vitamins" speech veggie folks give us is when you point out that vitamins are made from the SOURCE material.  Eating a beef pill does not mean you aren't eating beef.

Knock and the door shall open.  It's not my fault if you don't like the decor.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 4:35PM #208
teilhard
Posts: 50,893

Chimps in Nature eat anything they can get ...


Apr 18, 2012 -- 4:14PM, Iwantamotto wrote:


mindis1:  If humans were biologically adapted for a diet that consisted of any significant amount of meat, it would be a complete aberration among the apes.


Don't chimps eat meat, even other primates?


Girlchristian:  We've discussed this before and I provided the numerous vitamins and proteins that one gets from meat, some of which, can't be gotten from a plant-based diet and, in fact, vegetarians have to use supplements to get.


I think my favorite part of the whole "but I use vitamins" speech veggie folks give us is when you point out that vitamins are made from the SOURCE material.  Eating a beef pill does not mean you aren't eating beef.





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2 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 4:52PM #209
christine3
Posts: 7,007

Apr 18, 2012 -- 3:22PM, teilhard wrote:


Our Family Supper tonight will be Roasted Vegetables, a simple Recipe we love ...





Thank you for the recipe.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 5:22PM #210
teilhard
Posts: 50,893

You're welcome ... It just went into the Oven about 5 Minutes ago ...


Apr 18, 2012 -- 4:52PM, christine3 wrote:


Apr 18, 2012 -- 3:22PM, teilhard wrote:


Our Family Supper tonight will be Roasted Vegetables, a simple Recipe we love ...





Thank you for the recipe.





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