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Switch to Forum Live View Zimmerman Arrested On Murder Charge In Trayvon Martin Case
2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 1:41PM #31
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,657

Apr 13, 2012 -- 1:34AM, rabello wrote:


Apr 13, 2012 -- 12:43AM, mainecaptain wrote:


When you are scared, (and being stalked by a stranger is frightening) one does not always think straight, he (Trayvon Martin) May not have thought of (911).He was near his Dads residents, he may have been hoping he could make it their before the stalker caught up with him.




I agree...that's a good point. I wouldn't think of calling 9-1-1 if somebody was following me.   I was trying to make a comment on the irony of Zimmerman not waiting for "Dial-a-Prayer" to save him from a less-than-2-minute fistfight with a kid when it was the kid who needed the 9-1-1 officer.




And your point was a very good one, please forgive me if I over stepped.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 2:39PM #32
REteach
Posts: 13,547

Apr 13, 2012 -- 12:47PM, Nepenthe wrote:


Apr 12, 2012 -- 12:23PM, arielg wrote:


This is a case where he is guilty until he proves himself innocent. His only hope is how much of an excuse can the  interpretation of the "stand your ground" law can give him.




Well, he and his team will have to convince the jury that he was being assaulted by Martin.  If they can do that, then the "stand your ground" law does not apply, since there was no possibility for Zims to retreat.



If his girlfriend's testimony that Martin said he was scared stands, then Martin had a right to "stand his ground" and assault Zimmerman for following him at night with a gun. 

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 4:14PM #33
rabello
Posts: 19,325

Apr 13, 2012 -- 1:41PM, mainecaptain wrote:


And your point was a very good one, please forgive me if I over stepped.




Of course you didn't over step.  You made an excellent point. 


Apr 13, 2012 -- 12:47PM, Nepenthe wrote:


Well, he and his team will have to convince the jury that he was being assaulted by Martin.  If they can do that, then the "stand your ground" law does not apply, since there was no possibility for Zims to retreat.




Fortunately the prosecution's affadavit starts at the beginning of the story, stating the obvious -- that Zimmerman profiled this kid who was doing nothing wrong and then followed him instead of waiting for the "Dial A Prayer" officer(s) to arrive -- and not at the point Zimmerman "had" to use his gun


Just think, had Zimmerman trusted the "Dial A Prayer" service that most conservatives do not, and waited for the "Dial A Prayer" officer who had the authority to stop and interrogate, Martin would have made it home, the cop with Captain Zimmerman could have just knocked on a door and gotten the truth of the situation.   What a concept!

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 6:47PM #34
Marcion
Posts: 2,883

What kind of people are you, if I may ask?


Isn't his arrest enough for you?

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 7:15PM #35
jane2
Posts: 14,287

Apr 13, 2012 -- 6:47PM, Marcion wrote:


What kind of people are you, if I may ask?


Isn't his arrest enough for you?




Marcion


It is for many of us......................



 

discuss catholicism
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 8:14PM #36
REteach
Posts: 13,547

You know, I actually feel sorry for George Zimmerman. But Trayvon Martin is permanently, irrevocably DEAD for the crime of returning to his dad's residence after picking up Skittles and tea.  DEAD.  DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD.  I mean, really.  sheesh.

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 9:48PM #37
Nepenthe
Posts: 2,537

Apr 13, 2012 -- 4:14PM, rabello wrote:


Fortunately the prosecution's affadavit starts at the beginning of the story, stating the obvious -- that Zimmerman profiled this kid who was doing nothing wrong and then followed him instead of waiting for the "Dial A Prayer" officer(s) to arrive -- and not at the point Zimmerman "had" to use his gun




I was just reading about the affadavit and how horrible it was written.  Hopefuly it will not hurt the situation.


How Not To Draft A Probable Cause Affidavit


This makes the argumentative and conclusory elements of the affivadit that much more problematical.  For instance, the affidavit states that Zimmerman "profiled" Martin.  But it's impossible to determine if (1) that's the affiant's characterization of the narrative that follows, or (2) that's intended as a separate factual assertion based on unspecified facts or evidence or witnesses.  Similarly, the affidavit makes numerous statements about what Zimmerman thought or intended.  It is impossible to determine whether these statements are (1) conclusions based on Zimmerman's actions and statements to the 911 dispatcher, (2) admissions Zimmerman made in some unspecified statement, or (3) mere argument...


This is not the worst affidavit I've ever seen — but it's damn close, and the decision to proceed based on it in such a high-profile case is stunning.  Cynics may say that I've been spoiled by federal practice, where affidavits are on average considerably more careful and well-drafted, particularly in some districts.  But if it takes a high-profile case to highlight shoddy practices in everyday cases, so be it.  An affidavit like this makes a mockery of the probable cause process.  There's no way that a judge reading this affidavit can make an intelligent or informed decision about the sufficiency of the evidence — even for the low hurdle of probable cause. 



Alan Dershowitz also doesn't think much of it:



“Most affidavits of probable cause are very thin. This is so thin that it won’t make it past a judge on a second degree murder charge,” Dershowitz said. “There’s simply nothing in there that would justify second degree murder.”


Dershowitz said that the elements that would constitute that crime are non-existent in the affidavit. “It’s not only thin, it’s irresponsible,” said Dershowitz...


 


 


“This affidavit does not even make it to probable cause,” Dershowitz concluded. “everything in the affidavit is completely consistent with a defense of self-defense. Everything.”


Gary Johnson 2012
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 9:57PM #38
teilhard
Posts: 48,262

No ... Not yet ... The Case is supposed to go to TRIAL, right ... ???


Apr 13, 2012 -- 6:47PM, Marcion wrote:


What kind of people are you, if I may ask?


Isn't his arrest enough for you?





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2 years ago  ::  Apr 14, 2012 - 8:15AM #39
Marcion
Posts: 2,883

Apr 13, 2012 -- 9:57PM, teilhard wrote:


No ... Not yet ... The Case is supposed to go to TRIAL, right ... ???


Apr 13, 2012 -- 6:47PM, Marcion wrote:


What kind of people are you, if I may ask?


Isn't his arrest enough for you?








Nothing is enough for some rabid dogs.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 14, 2012 - 9:47AM #40
teilhard
Posts: 48,262

LOL ...


Right NOW, the Human "Rabid Dog" ("Night Stalker;" Shooter-of-Unarmed-Teenage-Youth) is being held in a Kind of Quarantine while The Community (appropriately) decides WHAT to DO with the Guy ...


Apr 14, 2012 -- 8:15AM, Marcion wrote:


Apr 13, 2012 -- 9:57PM, teilhard wrote:


No ... Not yet ... The Case is supposed to go to TRIAL, right ... ???


Apr 13, 2012 -- 6:47PM, Marcion wrote:


What kind of people are you, if I may ask?


Isn't his arrest enough for you?








Nothing is enough for some rabid dogs.





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