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Switch to Forum Live View Zimmerman Arrested On Murder Charge In Trayvon Martin Case
2 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 9:33PM #11
farragut
Posts: 3,937

I would think that manslaughter would be a lesser included offense and would be included in the court's instructions these many months in the future. However, I do not know Florida law.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 9:34PM #12
teilhard
Posts: 50,017

Yes ... IF later on The Defendant "cops a Plea," it will be to a LESSER Charge ...


Apr 11, 2012 -- 9:33PM, farragut wrote:


I would think that manslaughter would be a lesser included offense and would be included in the court's instructions these many months in the future. However, I do not know Florida law.





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2 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2012 - 8:58AM #13
Marcion
Posts: 2,883

Apr 11, 2012 -- 9:29PM, teilhard wrote:

MAYBE The Prosecutor has developed/learned some FACTS that will be made Public at Trial ...


Apr 11, 2012 -- 9:28PM, Marcion wrote:


I can't believe the special prosecutor went for second degree murder. that is going to be very hard to prove. She should have gone for manslaughter and had a better chance of winning, 






Now that the facts are out I can depart from my independent position and state that I always felt  Zimmerman should have been charged with voluntary manslaughter.


I will never give in to the mob hysteria that many posters succumed to on this issue; Teilhard being the worst offender.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2012 - 12:23PM #14
arielg
Posts: 9,116

Apr 11, 2012 -- 6:58PM, jane2 wrote:


Apr 11, 2012 -- 6:49PM, mainecaptain wrote:


It is about time. Now I hope justice is actually served.




As do I and most of us.




Justice has been served from day one. There is a process to go through instead of jumping to emotional, hysterical conclusions based on one's preconceptions. Justice is not only served when the result is  what some people  want.


As far as I am concerned, the guy is guilty just for the fact of going around the neighborhood with a loaded gun. It remains to be seen what kind of credible arguments he can come up with to diminish his guilt.


 This is a case where he is guilty until he proves himself innocent. His only hope is how much of an excuse can the  interpretation of the "stand your ground" law can give him.




 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2012 - 2:29PM #15
rabello
Posts: 20,410

Apr 12, 2012 -- 12:23PM, arielg wrote:


As far as I am concerned, the guy is guilty just for the fact of going around the neighborhood with a loaded gun.




Agreed


Apr 12, 2012 -- 12:23PM, arielg wrote:


It remains to be seen what kind of credible arguments he can come up with to diminish his guilt.




That the bare fists of a teenager are more lethal than the bullets in his gun.


Apr 12, 2012 -- 12:23PM, arielg wrote:


This is a case where he is guilty until he proves himself innocent. His only hope is how much of an excuse can the  interpretation of the "stand your ground" law can give him.




He could argue that he is a victim of Florida's lax gun laws and of Florida's Stand Your Ground law, allowing him to think he's protected from the lethality of a teenager's bare fists.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2012 - 3:48PM #16
TPaine
Posts: 9,233

Apr 11, 2012 -- 9:28PM, Marcion wrote:


I can't believe the special prosecutor went for second degree murder. that is going to be very hard to prove. She should have gone for manslaughter and had a better chance of winning,



The advantage of the 2nd degree murder charge is that it allows Mr. Zimmerman to plea bargain for a manslaughter charge which would negate the need for a lengthy, expensive, emotionally charged trial. Special Prosecutor Angela Corey must feel that the evidence is sufficient to gain a murder conviction or she wouldn't have charged him with it. In my experience prosecutors usually charge defendants with the highest charge they believe the can get a jury to convict that person of.

"It is always to be taken for granted, that those who oppose an equality of rights never mean the exclusion should take place on themselves." -- Thomas Paine: Dissertations on First Principles of Government (July 7, 1795)
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2012 - 3:54PM #17
TPaine
Posts: 9,233

Apr 12, 2012 -- 12:23PM, arielg wrote:


Apr 11, 2012 -- 6:58PM, jane2 wrote:


Apr 11, 2012 -- 6:49PM, mainecaptain wrote:


It is about time. Now I hope justice is actually served.



As do I and most of us.



Justice has been served from day one. There is a process to go through instead of jumping to emotional, hysterical conclusions based on one's preconceptions. Justice is not only served when the result is  what some people  want.


As far as I am concerned, the guy is guilty just for the fact of going around the neighborhood with a loaded gun. It remains to be seen what kind of credible arguments he can come up with to diminish his guilt.


 This is a case where he is guilty until he proves himself innocent. His only hope is how much of an excuse can the  interpretation of the "stand your ground" law can give him.



Mr. Zimmerman does not have to prove himself innocent. The burden of proof is on the prosecution, not the defense.

"It is always to be taken for granted, that those who oppose an equality of rights never mean the exclusion should take place on themselves." -- Thomas Paine: Dissertations on First Principles of Government (July 7, 1795)
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2012 - 3:55PM #18
mindis1
Posts: 7,500

Considering the recent cases that have been dismissed in Florida under its “stand your ground” law, I have little confidence that this case will go to trial. I have less confidence that Zimmerman will be convicted or will spend a day in prison on such conviction. Not that I am cynical.


Indeed, considering the recent cases that have been dismissed in under Florida’s “stand your ground” law, I think it would be somewhat unfortunate for this case to go to trial and result in a conviction, if its dismissal (or Zimmerman’s acquittal) could lead to the repeal of these and other NRA-sponsored laws.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2012 - 4:11PM #19
rabello
Posts: 20,410

Apr 12, 2012 -- 3:55PM, mindis1 wrote:


Considering the recent cases that have been dismissed in Florida under its “stand your ground” law, I have little confidence that this case will go to trial. I have less confidence that Zimmerman will be convicted or will spend a day in prison on such conviction. Not that I am cynical.


Indeed, considering the recent cases that have been dismissed in under Florida’s “stand your ground” law, I think it would be somewhat unfortunate for this case to go to trial and result in a conviction, if its dismissal (or Zimmerman’s acquittal) could lead to the repeal of these and other NRA-sponsored laws.




I share your lack of confidence in this situation.  But, the worst of all worlds would be for Zimmerman to get off but the NRA-sponsored laws that protect the shooter and not the victim don't get repealed, which is what I think is the most likely outcome.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2012 - 4:17PM #20
farragut
Posts: 3,937

I'm betting on his conviction and that an appeals court down the road will provide some substantial guidance about the interpretation of this law.

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